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Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

nytimes.com

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Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#71

Post by tomjakubowski »

jonesb6 wrote: post #42
Animats wrote: post #12

The author has a point. Most of the 9/11 attackers were Saudis. Bin Laden was a Saudi. Saudi Arabia is a dysfunctional country propped up by oil money. It's even more insular than it used to be. Saudis used to send their kids to the US to go to college, with Government funding. Now Saudi Arabia has enough educational institutions that they don't do that. Years ago, I met a Saudi girl finishing Stanford who mentioned…

I went to a school in the North West with a large international program. A ton of students were Saudi Arabian. The new king actually raised their living stipend. Students are payed something like $1000 for every time they are published, regardless of the journal's reputation. I think at high levels they realize their reliance on oil will be their downfall. And they are making huge investments in education (in my expe…

Saudi Arabia has enormous potential for solar energy. Consider all the land they have, pretty close to the equator, that is otherwise unproductive.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#72

Post by api »

happyscrappy wrote: post #30
raspasov wrote: post #16

This is so on point. A prime example of the hypocrisy of western governments. Until we have leaders that truly do what they claim to believe, we deserve everything that comes upon us.

So hypocrisy justifies spraying random Frenchmen with machine guns? Think harder.

It doesn't justify it, but what it does do is undermine our moral authority. "Why do you condemn the Paris terror attacks and at the same time help prop up regimes that chop peoples' heads off in public? Isn't that almost the same thing?"

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#73

Post by pstuart »

dragontamer wrote: post #62
amalag wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing how one theocracy, Saudi Arabia, is ok, but the other theocracy, Iran, is bad.

Not really. The US shot a missile at Iranian Airliner (killing all civilians on board) and coup'd Iran's Democracy in the 1960s. Iran held US personnel as hostages for a year and imprisons our visitors. They are also sworn enemies to US Allies like Israel. Iran is "bad" because they are our enemy. And they see the US as "bad" because we've been their enemy in the past. There is absolutely nothing strange about the ha…

> It is simple politics and history

American was at war with Japan and Germany not to long before as well. Now we are best buddies. Things can change if the money's right.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#74

Post by vox_mollis »

criley2 wrote: post #51
raverbashing wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, of course not We just have "Sharia Law" areas in the UK, honour killings in Canada, people getting shot in France and elsewhere because of drawings, etc And if someone disagrees I'd like to hear your opinion.

We also have Christians murdering abortion doctors, setting bombs and fires at clinics, Christian Sovereign Citizens murdering police on a near monthly basis, advocating for a theocracy in America (God above Country or Establishment of a national religion), advocation of Christian Law above secular law, etc, and we manage to keep our society from becoming a theocracy. Frankly, if a few evangelical Muslims are capable…

Well the obvious answer here is that all Abrahamic religions are suspect for breeding violence. But you can't say that in polite company for fear of the ADL, et. al.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#75

Post by WildUtah »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #60
pavel_lishin wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would imagine that a Saudi Arabian exchange student wouldn't have "desert views" high on their list of sight-seeing priorities.

I guess you are imagining wrong then. Either way, the US southwest desert is quite a bit different than the Saudi Arabian desert.

Watching Lawrence of Arabia I kept trying to identify the geologic layers in the familiar rock formations. Then I realized that it was actually filmed in Arabia. It only looked like Arizona.

So no, I don't expect that a non-geologist would find the American southwest so very novel compared to Saudi. But I've never, ever been bored in the American southwest in tens of thousands of hours of travel there.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#76

Post by bashedly »

vinceguidry wrote: post #43
jqm wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the conditions that beget such practices are a religion? Then what do we do?

Do Muslims in the West practice female genital mutilation? I was unaware.

Some do. Pedantically, the cases I'm referring to are literally "Muslims in the west" (and perhaps fundamentalist) rather than "Westernized" or moderate Muslims. There's certainly no absolute generalization to be made though, in one direction or the other.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#77

Post by chad_strategic »

Animats wrote: post #12

The author has a point. Most of the 9/11 attackers were Saudis. Bin Laden was a Saudi. Saudi Arabia is a dysfunctional country propped up by oil money. It's even more insular than it used to be. Saudis used to send their kids to the US to go to college, with Government funding. Now Saudi Arabia has enough educational institutions that they don't do that. Years ago, I met a Saudi girl finishing Stanford who mentioned…

---> Saudi Arabia is a dysfunctional country propped up by oil money.

I can't wait, the world can't wait any longer to end our dependence on fossil fuels. The world / middle east will be a better place if we reduce our dependence on fossil fuels.

May the force be with Elon Musk / Telsa ;)

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#79

Post by xlm1717 »

she_moves_on wrote: post #40

One frustrating thing that the author gets wrong is labelling Iran the "Gray Daesh." Iran has geopolitical conflict with the West, but it's a false equivalent of Saudi Arabia. Iran is a theocracy trying to control a population that growingly wants to be secular. Women in Iran go to university at higher rates than men, can drive, hold office, and vote. Life in Iran for a women is not perfect but is heaven compared to…

The main difference is that the government in power currently in Iran deposed the government that the US set up and wanted to have as an ally. If the Shah had remained in power in Iran, the US would likely be as close with Iran as they are with Saudi Arabia.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#80

Post by pearjuice »

happyscrappy wrote: post #30
raspasov wrote: post #16

This is so on point. A prime example of the hypocrisy of western governments. Until we have leaders that truly do what they claim to believe, we deserve everything that comes upon us.

So hypocrisy justifies spraying random Frenchmen with machine guns? Think harder.

The thing is that most people condemn the "spraying random Frenchmen with machine guns", but applaud when the day after France carpet bombs Raqqa, a Syrian city with a population of over 200000 with the civilians being trapped in the oppression of ISIS.

Apparently, then the death of dozens of innocent civilians which had no choice other than getting trapped between bombs falling from the sky or ISIS militants controlling the city borders, is justified because "look what happened in Paris!".

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