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Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

nytimes.com

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Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#161

Post by watty »

lotux wrote: post #92
DominikR wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I agree, the Iranians are on a different level regarding education, academia and culture. They will eventually transform into a relatively free society if we don't interfere.

We don't need your freedom, we are free, you are slave of your credit card company and bank, mind your own business. -- An Iranian

I think most westerners think of freedom as the ability to do what you want when you want. This means freedom of speech, freedom to travel, freedom of censorship, freedom of dress codes.

I'm not claiming other nations are completely free, they're not. But Iran is free? Not even close.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#162

Post by mkaziz »

jqm wrote: post #101
tomjakubowski wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not really a religious basis for FGM. The practice predates Islam in the Muslim countries where it's popular, and in certain places is more commonly practiced by Christians than Muslims.

That is only partially true. A casual Google check shows there is a religious basis for FGM. http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Female...

That's an incredibly biased source; I wouldn't quote it in a reasonable discussion.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#163

Post by rdtsc »

nickff wrote: post #116
0xFFC wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Iranian (I am commenting from Tehran) I completely approve your point of view.I even explained in long comment in this post(you can find it in bottom).Iranian regime nightmare is liberal people( because they are the most effective opposition to current regime, all of other opposition's dismantled by regime very easily they don't even exist in society). you know why? Because they are only threat to nature of this u…

From the perspective of a Western government, Iran's international relations are the problem.[1] The fact that Iran's society is relatively advanced does little to console the families of the 1100 American soldiers killed by Iranian proxies in Iraq; nor does it console the families of the hundreds (if not thousands) of Israeli civilians killed by (Iranian government supported) Hamas. State support for the Assad regim…

> The fact that Iran's society is relatively advanced does little to console the families of the 1100 American soldiers

US killed a lot more of the American soldiers since. You make it seems like 1000 US soldiers' concerns somehow makes huge difference in the overall geopolitics. That is just propaganda.

Many of those solders were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan invasion. Others were sent home traumatized mentally and physically.

> soldiers killed by Iranian proxies in Iraq

In general mentioning "killing by proxy" and US in the same comment is not a good idea if it is supposed to support the US position. US has killed by proxy a lot more and supported brutal regimes and dictators for many decades on almost all continents.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#164

Post by hackuser »

jacquesm wrote: post #136
zeveb wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the government in power currently in Iran deposed the government that the US set up The U.S. did not 'set up' the Shah; he was the legitimate ruler of Persia. Nor did the U.S. overthrow a 'democratically-elected leader'; the Shah's legitimate government successfully defeated a coup attempt by his prime minister Mossadegh, who died peacefully under house arrest years later.

Is this sarcasm? I'm asking because I don't see any markers indicating that it is and I get this wrong every 3rd comment or so. If it isn't sarcasm you are somewhat mis-informed. If it is sarcasm then please ignore this comment. As for the Shah, he was very much there with the support of the oil industry, but that doesn't make him all bad. He wanted to make Persia a modern state and in doing so upset the Mullahs whic…

> As for the Shah, he was very much there with the support of the oil industry, but that doesn't make him all bad. He wanted to make Persia a modern state and in doing so upset the Mullahs

IIRC, he oppressed, imprisoned, tortured and killed people in large numbers, for decades.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#165

Post by arethuza »

lambdasquirrel wrote: post #65
amalag wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing how one theocracy, Saudi Arabia, is ok, but the other theocracy, Iran, is bad.

Singapore is one republic, and Sweden is another. They could hardly be more different. Not all {governments-of-one-type} are the same.

Sweden is constitutional monarchy and a parliamentary democracy - more like the UK than Singapore.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#166

Post by acveilleux »

jacquesm wrote: post #126
nickff wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the perspective of a Western government, Iran's international relations are the problem.[1] The fact that Iran's society is relatively advanced does little to console the families of the 1100 American soldiers killed by Iranian proxies in Iraq; nor does it console the families of the hundreds (if not thousands) of Israeli civilians killed by (Iranian government supported) Hamas. State support for the Assad regim…

I think the US/Iran resentment goes back a bit further, roughly to the time that Iran took a whole pile of US hostages that were held for more than a year. That's not the sort of thing that is easily forgotten and it is one of the cornerstones of West/Islam conflict. After that it was mostly a downward spiral, with some recent relaxation on both sides of the line.

The US was also big time friend of the previous guy...

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#167

Post by 0xFFC »

myth_buster wrote: post #93
0xFFC wrote: post #11

I commented this in a post 3 days ago.it is completely applicable here,I know maybe this is not right thing to do -copying my old cm- but those point I think closely related to the topic.( there will be Isis like groups until West's ally in middle East is most corrupted regime maybe in world.how do you want people to not be terrorist when Saudi Arabia is one of the closest society in planet . how do you expect people…

I get this is an emotional response and somewhere 3/4th in, it turns into drivel with Texas women and such. I do believe violence begets more violence. Further I believe the complexity is something akin to the butterfly effect where doing something can cascade into something big in half a century. Take for example the drone strikes. The kids who manage to live through it would have have pent-up animosity towards the…

Maybe you don't know Islam as much as I do , but at the very end , it is only about sex . When you look at it in that perspective you can understand ruining their culture to show them their whole religion was a lie is the best approach.

about bad foreign policy I completely agree.And that was my whole point . stop killing people and overthrowing regime in Islamic areas and change your policy to show them new way of life. better way and more pleasant way.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#168

Post by idibidiart »

findyoucef wrote: post #154

It's worth noting that Kamel Daoud is an ex-islamist. He was allied with the Islamist that nearly destroyed our country (Algeria) in the 90s. It's just an interesting footnote.

Yup, and now he has internalized racism toward Muslims. Psychology 101.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#169

Post by rrggrr »

Cyph0n wrote: post #113
she_moves_on wrote: post #40

One frustrating thing that the author gets wrong is labelling Iran the "Gray Daesh." Iran has geopolitical conflict with the West, but it's a false equivalent of Saudi Arabia. Iran is a theocracy trying to control a population that growingly wants to be secular. Women in Iran go to university at higher rates than men, can drive, hold office, and vote. Life in Iran for a women is not perfect but is heaven compared to…

Ah yes, but you fail to mention Iran's extremely aggressive agenda in the region. The Ahwazi Arabs (Sunni, coincidentally) are stripped of nearly all basic human rights, enclosed in their own state essentially within Iran's borders [1]. Even the Shia in Saudi Arabia are treated better than how Iran handles the Ahwaz region. Further, Iran loves fighting wars by proxy for some reason. Hezbollah and the Revolutionary Gu…

Tehran is quite busy dealing with threats on all sides, whilst still trying to pursue its support of Hezbollah in Lebannon.

I think lessons learned in Iraq changed the calculus for Tehran and Washington. Keeping in mind there are at least 18m Sunni muslims in Iran vulnerable to ISIS message and good number of disaffected Shia, the focus may be on stability now.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#170

Post by idibidiart »

tdkl wrote: post #153

Fair to add that the large amount of funding came from the USA in eagerness to overthrow Assad. [1] So, if we have the mother and father: shall we call the USA a dumb rich uncle ? [1] https://www.facebook.com/UniversalFreePress/videos/110928687...

More like the Godfather, definitely not a dumb participant.
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