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Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

nytimes.com

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Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#181

Post by mratzloff »

hackuser wrote: post #125
dragontamer wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. The US shot a missile at Iranian Airliner (killing all civilians on board) and coup'd Iran's Democracy in the 1960s. Iran held US personnel as hostages for a year and imprisons our visitors. They are also sworn enemies to US Allies like Israel. Iran is "bad" because they are our enemy. And they see the US as "bad" because we've been their enemy in the past. There is absolutely nothing strange about the ha…

Iran was a U.S. ally under the Shahs, whose reign lasted from the coup we supported or engineered (against their mostly democratic government) in 1953 until the revolution in 1979. Many/most 9/11 perpetrators, including Osama Bin Laden, came from Saudi Arabia; there is plenty of reason for the U.S. to hate them. All countries (or other groups) can find reasons to hate or love each other. Look at France and Germany, c…

Iran was a U.S. ally under the Shahs, whose reign lasted from the coup we supported or engineered (against their mostly democratic governemnt) in 1953 until the revolution in 1979.

The beginning of Mohammad Reza's reign was in 1941 and had nothing to do with the US. The coup (by both the US and UK) was about reversing the nationalization of Iran's oil industry, not about installing Mohammad Reza as king. Britain and the Soviet Union did that in WWII.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#182

Post by dingaling »

nickff wrote: post #116
0xFFC wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Iranian (I am commenting from Tehran) I completely approve your point of view.I even explained in long comment in this post(you can find it in bottom).Iranian regime nightmare is liberal people( because they are the most effective opposition to current regime, all of other opposition's dismantled by regime very easily they don't even exist in society). you know why? Because they are only threat to nature of this u…

From the perspective of a Western government, Iran's international relations are the problem.[1] The fact that Iran's society is relatively advanced does little to console the families of the 1100 American soldiers killed by Iranian proxies in Iraq; nor does it console the families of the hundreds (if not thousands) of Israeli civilians killed by (Iranian government supported) Hamas. State support for the Assad regim…

> does little to console the families of the 1100 American soldiers killed by Iranian proxies in Iraq

Hang on... the USA sent armed forces 9,500 km across the globe to unilaterally invade a country literally across the border from Iran, and you reckon it's Iran's fault they were killed?

Of course Iran was going to take advantage of the situation. It's their backyard, the USA was thrashing around aimlessly and they saw an opportunity to achieve an objective to their benefit. After all they have to live beside the self-imploding remains of Iraq, they can't just climb into C-17s and say it's over.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#183

Post by smegel »

llamataboot wrote: post #15
notliketherest wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. The oil that turns the crank of industry and provides the energy that produces so much of every comfort we hold dear in the west finances the very evil that seeks to destroy it. Until we end our reliance of oil, the middle east and Islam will continue to threaten the West's existence. It's a horrible irony.

Islam is not threatening the West's existence.

Not when every nuclear armed state except Pakistan and North Korea are lined up to give it a good whipping.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#184

Post by tptacek »

gwbas1c wrote: post #138

From: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic." Is this article really appropriate for Hacker News?

Not even a little bit. I flagged the article, as did many others.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#185

Post by nickbauman »

lobster_johnson wrote: post #160
nickbauman wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone pointed out to me earlier this week here on HN, Seymour Hersh's article on the Bin Ladin assassination, the real story of Al Qe'da is that the Saudis funded it tacitly. And as a result Saudi government is partially responsible for 9/11. The sooner we figure out how to make petroleum irrelevant, the sooner places like Saudi lose their influence. Gas == War.

The US only imports about 15% of crud oil and related products (such as gas) from Saudi Arabia. 70% is non-OPEC, and 40% is from Canada [1]. At the same time, the US produces roughly the same amount that it imports [2]. So at this point in time, the US no longer needs the Middle East for oil. [1] http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_... [2] http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PE…

Completely true: the US doesn't need middle eastern oil. But the politics around oil are not just about getting it. It's also about preventing certain groups from getting it AND controlling access to oil to our strategic allies. Oil is the lever of all geopolitics. To understand the balance of power, the economics and politics of oil go hand in hand. It's not just about driving your car: it's about ruling the world.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#186

Post by anon1mous »

jacquesm wrote: post #126
nickff wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the perspective of a Western government, Iran's international relations are the problem.[1] The fact that Iran's society is relatively advanced does little to console the families of the 1100 American soldiers killed by Iranian proxies in Iraq; nor does it console the families of the hundreds (if not thousands) of Israeli civilians killed by (Iranian government supported) Hamas. State support for the Assad regim…

I think the US/Iran resentment goes back a bit further, roughly to the time that Iran took a whole pile of US hostages that were held for more than a year. That's not the sort of thing that is easily forgotten and it is one of the cornerstones of West/Islam conflict. After that it was mostly a downward spiral, with some recent relaxation on both sides of the line.

Or even further back to the time when CIA destroyed the democracy in Iran, and hasn't stopped interfering since ...

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#187

Post by anon1mous »

Cyph0n wrote: post #113
she_moves_on wrote: post #40

One frustrating thing that the author gets wrong is labelling Iran the "Gray Daesh." Iran has geopolitical conflict with the West, but it's a false equivalent of Saudi Arabia. Iran is a theocracy trying to control a population that growingly wants to be secular. Women in Iran go to university at higher rates than men, can drive, hold office, and vote. Life in Iran for a women is not perfect but is heaven compared to…

Ah yes, but you fail to mention Iran's extremely aggressive agenda in the region. The Ahwazi Arabs (Sunni, coincidentally) are stripped of nearly all basic human rights, enclosed in their own state essentially within Iran's borders [1]. Even the Shia in Saudi Arabia are treated better than how Iran handles the Ahwaz region. Further, Iran loves fighting wars by proxy for some reason. Hezbollah and the Revolutionary Gu…

Oh, just maybe it has something to do with the extremely pacifist agenda of the US and Saudi Arabia in the region ...

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#188

Post by kawera »

tptacek wrote: post #184
gwbas1c wrote: post #138

From: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic." Is this article really appropriate for Hacker News?

Not even a little bit. I flagged the article, as did many others.

I deeply regret posting this article. Somehow I thought it was interesting and in tune with many other articles we've discussed this week but seeing what happened here, oh my... I'm really sorry, won't happen again.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#189

Post by lemevi »

nickbauman wrote: post #117
lemevi wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine that any country near Israel will never become to irrelevant to the US because protecting our long time ally Israel is hugely important.

The reason why Israel is important is because of its proximity to the Grand Lever of geopolitics that is crude oil. Once we stop burning crude oil, the relevance of Israel to US foreign policy wanes considerably.

I don't think so. Israel is an important historical ally. Oil or not, Israel's importance in US politics isn't going away.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#190

Post by anon1mous »

nickbauman wrote: post #117
lemevi wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine that any country near Israel will never become to irrelevant to the US because protecting our long time ally Israel is hugely important.

The reason why Israel is important is because of its proximity to the Grand Lever of geopolitics that is crude oil. Once we stop burning crude oil, the relevance of Israel to US foreign policy wanes considerably.

Nonsense. US is completely pwned by Israel.
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