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Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

nytimes.com

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Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#111

Post by lotux »

msoad wrote: post #98
0xFFC wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Iranian (I am commenting from Tehran) I completely approve your point of view.I even explained in long comment in this post(you can find it in bottom).Iranian regime nightmare is liberal people( because they are the most effective opposition to current regime, all of other opposition's dismantled by regime very easily they don't even exist in society). you know why? Because they are only threat to nature of this u…

Well, porn usually doesn't help much. How about proper education and teaching people to respect women and minorities?

We all get free or almost free or cheap, decent education in Iran, how about you? how much university debt do you have?

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#112

Post by lotux »

zeveb wrote: post #105
xlm1717 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main difference is that the government in power currently in Iran deposed the government that the US set up and wanted to have as an ally. If the Shah had remained in power in Iran, the US would likely be as close with Iran as they are with Saudi Arabia.

> the government in power currently in Iran deposed the government that the US set up The U.S. did not 'set up' the Shah; he was the legitimate ruler of Persia. Nor did the U.S. overthrow a 'democratically-elected leader'; the Shah's legitimate government successfully defeated a coup attempt by his prime minister Mossadegh, who died peacefully under house arrest years later.

oh my god, you should get hired by FoxNews

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#113

Post by Cyph0n »

she_moves_on wrote: post #40

One frustrating thing that the author gets wrong is labelling Iran the "Gray Daesh." Iran has geopolitical conflict with the West, but it's a false equivalent of Saudi Arabia. Iran is a theocracy trying to control a population that growingly wants to be secular. Women in Iran go to university at higher rates than men, can drive, hold office, and vote. Life in Iran for a women is not perfect but is heaven compared to…

Ah yes, but you fail to mention Iran's extremely aggressive agenda in the region.

The Ahwazi Arabs (Sunni, coincidentally) are stripped of nearly all basic human rights, enclosed in their own state essentially within Iran's borders [1]. Even the Shia in Saudi Arabia are treated better than how Iran handles the Ahwaz region.

Further, Iran loves fighting wars by proxy for some reason. Hezbollah and the Revolutionary Guard are roaming around Syria like they own it. Hezbollah's hold on Lebanese politics is undeniable. And of course, the funding of Houthis in Yemen who hilariously failed to execute an easy coup, the result of which started a full-blown war.

The region is in turmoil, and both sides are at fault. I personally believe that the US is entirely aware of the troubled sectarian relations in the region, and is using that as a way to get cheap oil and sell arms, which is a valid strategy.

This has to stop. The only lasting solution is dialogue.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahwazi_Arabs

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#114

Post by sampo »

0xFFC wrote: post #64
she_moves_on wrote: post #40

One frustrating thing that the author gets wrong is labelling Iran the "Gray Daesh." Iran has geopolitical conflict with the West, but it's a false equivalent of Saudi Arabia. Iran is a theocracy trying to control a population that growingly wants to be secular. Women in Iran go to university at higher rates than men, can drive, hold office, and vote. Life in Iran for a women is not perfect but is heaven compared to…

As Iranian (I am commenting from Tehran) I completely approve your point of view.I even explained in long comment in this post(you can find it in bottom).Iranian regime nightmare is liberal people( because they are the most effective opposition to current regime, all of other opposition's dismantled by regime very easily they don't even exist in society). you know why? Because they are only threat to nature of this u…

Now that there are negative experiences on the consequences of overthrowing the regime in Iraq, Libya, Syria, it might unfortunately take a long time before the West will have courage to support a regime change in Iran.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#115

Post by fukusa »

Daesh has a mother: the invasion of Iraq. But it also has a father: Saudi Arabia and its religious-industrial complex. Until that point is understood, battles may be won, but the war will be lost. Jihadists will be killed, only to be reborn again in future generations and raised on the same books. The attacks in Paris have exposed this contradiction again, but as happened after 9/11, it risks being erased from our analyses and our consciences.

The best summary I have read so far.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#116

Post by nickff »

0xFFC wrote: post #64
she_moves_on wrote: post #40

One frustrating thing that the author gets wrong is labelling Iran the "Gray Daesh." Iran has geopolitical conflict with the West, but it's a false equivalent of Saudi Arabia. Iran is a theocracy trying to control a population that growingly wants to be secular. Women in Iran go to university at higher rates than men, can drive, hold office, and vote. Life in Iran for a women is not perfect but is heaven compared to…

As Iranian (I am commenting from Tehran) I completely approve your point of view.I even explained in long comment in this post(you can find it in bottom).Iranian regime nightmare is liberal people( because they are the most effective opposition to current regime, all of other opposition's dismantled by regime very easily they don't even exist in society). you know why? Because they are only threat to nature of this u…

From the perspective of a Western government, Iran's international relations are the problem.[1] The fact that Iran's society is relatively advanced does little to console the families of the 1100 American soldiers killed by Iranian proxies in Iraq; nor does it console the families of the hundreds (if not thousands) of Israeli civilians killed by (Iranian government supported) Hamas. State support for the Assad regime isn't helping the Iranian government's international reputation either.[2]

If you want to change the West's attitude towards Iran, a good first step would be to push for the release of Jason Rezaian, and the end of state support for terrorism.[3]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terro...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_involvement_in_the_Syr...

[3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/pb/stories-jason-rezaian/

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#117

Post by nickbauman »

lemevi wrote: post #100
nickbauman wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone pointed out to me earlier this week here on HN, Seymour Hersh's article on the Bin Ladin assassination, the real story of Al Qe'da is that the Saudis funded it tacitly. And as a result Saudi government is partially responsible for 9/11. The sooner we figure out how to make petroleum irrelevant, the sooner places like Saudi lose their influence. Gas == War.

I imagine that any country near Israel will never become to irrelevant to the US because protecting our long time ally Israel is hugely important.

The reason why Israel is important is because of its proximity to the Grand Lever of geopolitics that is crude oil. Once we stop burning crude oil, the relevance of Israel to US foreign policy wanes considerably.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#119

Post by vixen99 »

vinceguidry wrote: post #43
jqm wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the conditions that beget such practices are a religion? Then what do we do?

Do Muslims in the West practice female genital mutilation? I was unaware.

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-18900803

"Estimate that there are 66,000 victims of FGM in England and Wales and warns that more than 24,000 girls under 15 are at risk. More than 2,000 victims of FGM sought treatment in London hospitals alone in the past three years."

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/06/female-genita...

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#120

Post by tallerholler »

fukusa wrote: post #115

Daesh has a mother: the invasion of Iraq. But it also has a father: Saudi Arabia and its religious-industrial complex. Until that point is understood, battles may be won, but the war will be lost. Jihadists will be killed, only to be reborn again in future generations and raised on the same books. The attacks in Paris have exposed this contradiction again, but as happened after 9/11, it risks being erased from our an…

the guy nailed it.. great read
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