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Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

nytimes.com

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Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#131

Post by nickff »

jacquesm wrote: post #126
nickff wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the perspective of a Western government, Iran's international relations are the problem.[1] The fact that Iran's society is relatively advanced does little to console the families of the 1100 American soldiers killed by Iranian proxies in Iraq; nor does it console the families of the hundreds (if not thousands) of Israeli civilians killed by (Iranian government supported) Hamas. State support for the Assad regim…

I think the US/Iran resentment goes back a bit further, roughly to the time that Iran took a whole pile of US hostages that were held for more than a year. That's not the sort of thing that is easily forgotten and it is one of the cornerstones of West/Islam conflict. After that it was mostly a downward spiral, with some recent relaxation on both sides of the line.

That's certainly a good point, but they can do little to change their history, other than plead for forgiveness, which the state is unlikely to do, as that is now part of their origin myth.[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_myth

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#132

Post by 001sky »

lotux wrote: post #111
msoad wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, porn usually doesn't help much. How about proper education and teaching people to respect women and minorities?

We all get free or almost free or cheap, decent education in Iran, how about you? how much university debt do you have?

no gift is ever free. that is the problem.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#134

Post by Pxtl »

she_moves_on wrote: post #40

One frustrating thing that the author gets wrong is labelling Iran the "Gray Daesh." Iran has geopolitical conflict with the West, but it's a false equivalent of Saudi Arabia. Iran is a theocracy trying to control a population that growingly wants to be secular. Women in Iran go to university at higher rates than men, can drive, hold office, and vote. Life in Iran for a women is not perfect but is heaven compared to…

I hope that, between the nuclear treaty and Daesh providing a common foe, we can start making more political inroads between western powers and Iran... maybe even Lebanon, too (the Beirut bombings are fresh in memory).

The hard part will, of course, be Israel's influence on western politics, since the situation is worsening there with the recent spate of stabbings and the new walls going up to protect settlements in the west bank.

With Iran and Lebanon's ties to Hezbollah, Israel will (quite reasonably, all things considered) react badly to inroads made between these countries and Israel's allies.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#135

Post by Pxtl »

she_moves_on wrote: post #40

One frustrating thing that the author gets wrong is labelling Iran the "Gray Daesh." Iran has geopolitical conflict with the West, but it's a false equivalent of Saudi Arabia. Iran is a theocracy trying to control a population that growingly wants to be secular. Women in Iran go to university at higher rates than men, can drive, hold office, and vote. Life in Iran for a women is not perfect but is heaven compared to…

I hope that, between the nuclear treaty and Daesh providing a common foe, we can start making more political inroads between western powers and Iran... maybe even Lebanon, too (the Beirut bombings are fresh in memory).

The hard part will, of course, be Israel's influence on western politics, since the situation is worsening there with the recent spate of stabbings and the new walls going up to protect settlements in the west bank.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#136

Post by jacquesm »

zeveb wrote: post #105
xlm1717 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main difference is that the government in power currently in Iran deposed the government that the US set up and wanted to have as an ally. If the Shah had remained in power in Iran, the US would likely be as close with Iran as they are with Saudi Arabia.

> the government in power currently in Iran deposed the government that the US set up The U.S. did not 'set up' the Shah; he was the legitimate ruler of Persia. Nor did the U.S. overthrow a 'democratically-elected leader'; the Shah's legitimate government successfully defeated a coup attempt by his prime minister Mossadegh, who died peacefully under house arrest years later.

Is this sarcasm?

I'm asking because I don't see any markers indicating that it is and I get this wrong every 3rd comment or so.

If it isn't sarcasm you are somewhat mis-informed. If it is sarcasm then please ignore this comment.

As for the Shah, he was very much there with the support of the oil industry, but that doesn't make him all bad. He wanted to make Persia a modern state and in doing so upset the Mullahs which culminated in the return of banished Ayatollah Khomeini (who resided in Paris, of all places during his exile), and how that ended we probably all already know.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#137

Post by cap_theorem »

NiftyFifty wrote: post #106

The major problem I have with this opinion piece is not the perspective, but the writer - Kamel Daoud. One of his major influences is a cross-section of experience between living in Algeria and being bifurcated with the west. His bleed out on the screen, seems more jaded than informative. At the very least he's sloppy in respecting certain parts of the Saudi national, with terms like Wahhabi which by all accounts is…

> Saudi Arabia is by all measures secular

Come again?

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#138

Post by gwbas1c »

From: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

"Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic."

Is this article really appropriate for Hacker News?

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#139

Post by jacquesm »

001sky wrote: post #132
lotux wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all get free or almost free or cheap, decent education in Iran, how about you? how much university debt do you have?

no gift is ever free. that is the problem.

I fail to see the downside of a free education. The questions you might ask is what it is exactly that is being taught but in general a free education is a good thing.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#140

Post by pge »

NiftyFifty wrote: post #106

The major problem I have with this opinion piece is not the perspective, but the writer - Kamel Daoud. One of his major influences is a cross-section of experience between living in Algeria and being bifurcated with the west. His bleed out on the screen, seems more jaded than informative. At the very least he's sloppy in respecting certain parts of the Saudi national, with terms like Wahhabi which by all accounts is…

Worth noting that the article was translated from its original French, so the word choice that appears in English is not the choice of the original author.
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