Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you give examples of why you think the EFF is cynical? As a frequent donor, I would like another perspective.
While I am not the OP (and support all of their agenda) - any organization that is payed to hold certain position becomes cynical because it is literally their job to spin any event into something that fits their agenda. It is the nature of the beast.
Baseless Calls to Expand Surveillance Fit Familiar, Cynical Pattern
51–60 of 122 posts
Re: Baseless Calls to Expand Surveillance Fit Familiar, Cynical Pattern
#52Why should we listen? France already massively ramped up their surveillance state after the Hebdo attacks (the perps were known to them beforehand anyway), and that did absolutely nothing to stop a much larger and more complex attack, also with known perps. A panopticon can't stop terrorists from lashing out violently, but it can certainly chill speech and promote totalitarian government. That's their angle: use the…
And the terrorists are aware of the above and are now training their followers to use apps like Telegram.
With 7 billion people in this world, preventing every single attack by mass surveillance alone is impossible. But I think its naive to believe that surveillance is not helpful to law enforcement or that the pro surveillance crowd is motivated by some sort of ulterior motive to blackmail people. If you are the head of the CIA or NYPD, you probably spend a lot of your time genuinely worrying about letting an attack happen on your watch and you would be strongly inclined to fight for every tool you can get.
The question is whether the benefits of dragnet surveillance and weakening encryption outweigh the negatives, and like others here, I'm inclined to think they do not.
Re: Baseless Calls to Expand Surveillance Fit Familiar, Cynical Pattern
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
"And that did nothing to stop a much larger, more complex attack" Perhaps, but I think the best way to measure the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of the program is not the number of attacks that have slipped through, but the proportion of those that were prevented compared to those that slipped through.
This is impossible. One of the problems with the blatant misuse of forecasting is governments using it it to compare outrageous black swan futures against real history. It leads to claiming that "spying on everyone 24/7 to prevent an infinite number of terror attacks" is in everyones interest. The reality is that a limited number of black-swan terror attacks is actually a minimal cost compared to destroying social fa…
Re: Baseless Calls to Expand Surveillance Fit Familiar, Cynical Pattern
#54Why should we listen? France already massively ramped up their surveillance state after the Hebdo attacks (the perps were known to them beforehand anyway), and that did absolutely nothing to stop a much larger and more complex attack, also with known perps. A panopticon can't stop terrorists from lashing out violently, but it can certainly chill speech and promote totalitarian government. That's their angle: use the…
I could be wrong on the facts here as I have not been following the story closely, but I believe that the unencrypted SMS found on a phone outside the Batcalan helped lead police to St. Denis where they killed the mastermind and several other terrorists and likely prevented a further attack. Between St. Denis and the raids in Belgium, it seems like the police likely (1) already knew a lot about many of the people inv…
That inclination is likely going to fall along the lines of your biases unless its in direct relation to an already occurred or ongoing event.
Re: Baseless Calls to Expand Surveillance Fit Familiar, Cynical Pattern
#55Why should we listen? France already massively ramped up their surveillance state after the Hebdo attacks (the perps were known to them beforehand anyway), and that did absolutely nothing to stop a much larger and more complex attack, also with known perps. A panopticon can't stop terrorists from lashing out violently, but it can certainly chill speech and promote totalitarian government. That's their angle: use the…
Re: Baseless Calls to Expand Surveillance Fit Familiar, Cynical Pattern
#56Does this EFF post say anything new, or is it voted to the top of the site because (a) anti-surveillance and (b) EFF? I find EFF to be a deeply cynical organization, even though I for the most part share their policy objectives.
That one is pretty close to the slippery slopes that lead into Brave New World-style dystopia, Brazil-style dystopia, Walden Two-style dystopia, Atlas Shrugged-style dystopia, and Snow Crash-style dystopia.
We're damned if we do, damned if we don't, and doubly-damned if we do it half-assed.
So good for the EFF, and their noble effort to steer the train.
Re: Baseless Calls to Expand Surveillance Fit Familiar, Cynical Pattern
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
>That's their angle: use the panopticon to get blackmail material on 100% of people, then anyone who is inconvenient or needs to be controlled can be dealt with painlessly. Right, France is a totalitarian government, no proof necessary. You cannot fight nonsense with nonsense.
I didn't say that they were totalitarian, merely that they had taken a step in that direction. Powers are abused, 100% of the time, even if you don't find out. Steps against free society add up.
Re: Baseless Calls to Expand Surveillance Fit Familiar, Cynical Pattern
#58Just a reminder, there is no evidence that the Paris attackers used any kind of encryption. After Endless Demonization Of Encryption, Police Find Paris Attackers Coordinated Via Unencrypted SMS: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20151118/08474732854/after...
http://www.francetvinfo.fr/replay-magazine/france-2/envoye-s...
Re: Baseless Calls to Expand Surveillance Fit Familiar, Cynical Pattern
#59Notice we don't see calls for more surveillance after domestic shootings/terrorism. Well, body cams for police is maybe an exception. But schools, churches, and movie theaters get shot up weekly. I think the illusion that somehow the surveillance apparatus filters out white people and only focuses on terrorism lets Americans feel okay with it. Also I don't think most people realize how almost every action and thought…
I think the reasoning is that in domestic school/church/theater shootings, the perpetrator isn't engaged in long communications (and receiving instructions from) a leadership group.
Re: Baseless Calls to Expand Surveillance Fit Familiar, Cynical Pattern
#60If you look at a population in the hundreds of millions and the set of terrorists planning an attack, maybe in the dozens (?), you need a pretty powerful test if you're to inconvenience fewer terrorists than ordinary people.
And that doesn't even touch on the issue of whether it's right to do so if it works.
Has anyone here worked on similar identification algorithms? The closest I can think of is a friend of mine who markets drugs for extremely rare conditions. But then those people tend not to be hiding and can be approached via search keywords.