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VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

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Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#561

Post by whyoh »

Angostura wrote: post #100
cygx wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's not "all Muslisms". But those who claim "it's only the terrorists" or "it's all politics" do not grasp the scope of the problem, ie that globally speaking, a significant number of adherents of Islam hold ideas that are incompatible with an open society. If you naively extrapolate from the 2013 Pew Poll The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society (which in principle represents nations with a tot…

I really hate that Pew Survey. It polls people from some of the most culturally conservative countries and then uses that to make assertions about Islam. I wish Pew had interviewed Christians in the same countries at the same time and asked them what they thought should be done to homosexuals. It would be interesting to see what we could glean about Christianity.

>It polls people from some of the most culturally conservative countries

Here's a poll which includes Muslims living in Europe:

http://www.pewglobal.org/files/pdf/253topline.pdf#page=16

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#562

Post by hueving »

woah wrote: post #492
tezza wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for a measured and informative response. I could add to your list reams of links of where 'we' have behaved badly. I suspect you too have a bulging bookmark folder like I do of hypocritical western behaviour. However the battle against militant jihadi extremists is one issue where 'we' are completely in the right. Completely. No need to apologise for past wrongs. If we have regarded life as too cheap in the pa…

This is a silly viewpoint. I say this not out of some white-guilt self flagellation, but because if we hold these silly Star Wars level beliefs about Islamic extremism, we will not be able to effectively fight them. Young people join ISIS not because they are "evil" (what, are they Darth Vader?). They join because ISIS makes a compelling case that the world would be a better place if it was rid of western domination.…

>They join because ISIS makes a compelling case that the world would be a better place if it was rid of western domination.

Bullshit. The people who are destroying ancient statues and slaughtering other Muslims didn't sign up for some grand scheme of bringing down the west after a reasoned argument. They signed up because they are violent psychopaths and they were given an avenue to do all of the fucked up things that struck their fancy.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#563

Post by Cyph0n »

redial wrote: post #553
Cyph0n wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yes, I agree. Unfortunately, we live in an imperfect world where not all followers of a religion follow its true message. You might say "well OK, so get rid of religion". People will still seek power, but in other ways. In other words, there are people who always seek the easiest way to gain more power and influence. Yes, the Quran was revealed directly to Muhammad. He told his wife first, and she believed him. It…

No, it doesn't make any difference at all. The apparent beauty of the text says nothing about the truth of the text. Otherwise the King James Bible, considered by most English scholars to be one of the most, if not the most beautiful work of english literature would be entirely true. I have no opinion on the honesty of Muhammad, it is irrelevant. He might have heard voices, or seen angels and visions on his head that…

No difference at all? OK.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#564

Post by Nursie »

Cyph0n wrote: post #517
redial wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other mammals as in the ones who use religious texts to get 'power' in the real world. Politicians, military leaders, jihadists, and sadly even teachers and parents. And was the Quran not a revelation from 'God' only to Muhammad? If he wants to believe it, fine, why should anybody else? Oh yes, eternal torture. It is childish to be told a story and believe it true only because they threaten you.

Oh yes, I agree. Unfortunately, we live in an imperfect world where not all followers of a religion follow its true message. You might say "well OK, so get rid of religion". People will still seek power, but in other ways. In other words, there are people who always seek the easiest way to gain more power and influence. Yes, the Quran was revealed directly to Muhammad. He told his wife first, and she believed him. It…

No, not one iota.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#565

Post by dang »

easytiger wrote: post #282
iamthepieman wrote: post #37

I work with a Muslim and I'm a Christian. Since we are both very conservative, I actually have more in common with him than with my secular coworkers and friends. Unfortunately we both work remotely and live several hundred miles from each other. I think we could be good friends if we lived closer. One thing I have learned talking with my Muslim coworker is that, just like in Christianity, there are many divisions an…

It is good you have self awareness about your religion. Do you admit both views are complete fallacy?

If I'm reading you correctly, you need to know that religious flamewars are not allowed here.

The current thread is managing to stay surprisingly less hostile than it could have been. Let's keep it that way.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#566

Post by treehau5 »

vog wrote: post #76
cygx wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's not "all Muslisms". But those who claim "it's only the terrorists" or "it's all politics" do not grasp the scope of the problem, ie that globally speaking, a significant number of adherents of Islam hold ideas that are incompatible with an open society. If you naively extrapolate from the 2013 Pew Poll The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society (which in principle represents nations with a tot…

> 40% of these think you should be killed for leaving Islam. How do these numbers compare to other religions? For example, there is an unconfortable number of Christians who do have a fundamentalist mindset, too (although I didn't find any exact numbers). Probably similar issue for other religions and possibly also among non-religious people.

The difference is these are incorrect beliefs.

There is words, in the Quran, which Muslims believe every word is true and correct, that literally tells you to kill someone for leaving Islam. And before someone makes the "taken out of context", that's in context.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#567

Post by limelight »

jacquesm wrote: post #256
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And a very large number of people in my country would happily throw back those fleeing the carnage to become victims of that 40% That statement really doesn't make much sense at all. People are fleeing a war, among them people from the 40% and the 60% group alike. And no one in Europe is advocating throwing anyone back into a war zone. Many want the refugees stay somewhere in the region instead of letting them come…

> And no one in Europe is advocating throwing anyone back into a war zone. Ah, you must be a bit out of touch with recent developments in NL. We're soon to have elections and it looks like we'll have Geert Wilders for prime minister, his main motto is 'close the borders', the secondary one is 'the problem is the foreigners' and the third is 'let's throw all those refugees out'. And whether it is exactly 40% or not is…

> We're soon to have elections and it looks like we'll have Geert Wilders for prime minister

That's incredibly depressing. I only know of Geert Wilders from the court case (it was part of a law class), but I always assumed he was some uber-fringe politician who would never get anywhere near high office.

The world is entering a new period of radicalization and I'm very worried about the consequences.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#568

Post by dang »

lottin wrote: post #333

As an atheist, I see Islam as a barbaric belief system of some ancient cave men. Sorry but I feel very difficult to empathise with people who in this day and age feel so strongly about religion.

This comment and the ensuing subthread cross the line into generic religious flamewar. Please don't do that on HN.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#569

Post by redthrowaway »

rory wrote: post #489
greyfox wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what is atlantean? are you a subsect of protestant or catholic? i tried searching and couldn't come up with much results.

The "made up names cause I don't want to offend anyone this early in the morning" caveat includes the name Atlantean.

Just for shits and giggles, go ahead and google "atlantean church". Some fun stuff there.

"When Jesus was born, it threatened the growing rule of the roman empire and catholic church"

http://anunnakifiles.com/history/jesus-the-atlantean/

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#570

Post by hueving »

Natanael_L wrote: post #539
tome wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of moral equivocation can only come if you really have no clue about the reality of these conflicts, in my opinion. It's one of the great weaknesses of our civilisation that we are "too broad-minded to take own own side in a quarrel" (to quote a phrase I just learned today). In the large, one side wants to impose rule based on beliefs about what an omnipotent sky person wants and is willing to sacrifice inn…

> The other side wants to propagate individual liberty and democracy and takes great lengths to avoid civilian casualties This is why you're wrong. No, the leaders (whether it is the politicians or the military command) don't care about civilian casualties unless there's large vocal resistance.

Based on what evidence?
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