VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks • Hacker News Board

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#431

Post by tome » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 4:36 PM UTC

drumdance wrote: post #426

raverbashing wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see precious little difference to an attack on Fallujah to 'liberate' it and an attack on Paris to murder a bunch of people. Oh of course, they're the same thing. Bombing civilians (without those being the explicit target) in a military context is exactly the same thing as just invading a concert room or shooting randomly at people You're missing the context and the intent, just that. But I can see your ideology…

It's not the exactly the same thing from your perspective, but I bet it is from the victims'. Imagine if a drone from Saudi Arabia or better yet Assad's Syria swooped into your community looking for, the leader of a US infantry commander, and instead blew up a wedding party. And not just once, but dozens of times over the course of years. How would you feel about that? Would you want retribution? Would you want to sp…

Seems that Germans, Japanese, Vietnamese, Nicaraguans, have all managed to contain their need for "retribution" from the United States.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#432

Post by tome » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 4:38 PM UTC

jon-wood wrote: post #428

tome wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> believing that the majority of Muslims are terrorists Nobody in this thread has suggested this > ... declare all Muslims want me dead ... nor this.

My apologies, I completely misread "It's absolutely not inconsistent" as "It's absolutely inconsistent".

No problem. It was a lack of clarity in my writing. Double negatives are not to be unavoided!

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#433

Post by drumdance » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 4:38 PM UTC

will_brown wrote: post #344

Natanael_L wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Why can't they be the same thing, just in different contexts? On both sides there's people who believe the enemy will destroy the world, and believes in a particular ideal, and who sends out armies to achieve their goals, and both sides are very clearly not very precise in who they actually target (the bombing on Doctor's Without Border, anyone?). Both sides cause tons of civilian casualties, both refuse to apol…

IS = an ideological network of individuals hiding among civilian populations across the globe US = an nation state with an identifiable military subjected to rule of law >and both sides are very clearly not very precise in who they actually target (the bombing on Doctor's Without Border, anyone?). Both sides cause tons of civilian casualties For better or worse the US is operating on intelligence specifically designe…

I donn't think the US is exactly the same as ISIS, but the fact remains that our invasion of Iraq was a war of choice.

When you're under attack from a vastly superior military, your options for response are very limited.

It's hard for us in the US to even conceive what it would be like to be in that situation. The only analog is a War of the Worlds style invasion by aliens.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#434

Post by scrollaway » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 4:39 PM UTC

alvarosm wrote: post #427

scrollaway wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one hell of a bubble. You do know that for a lot of people, it's simply impossible to move out of their city, especially in countries like Syria and Pakistan? Family ties are the least of their problems. Most people simply don't have a wad of cash to do this with.

4 million out of 17 have fled already. I'm not trying to blame anyone for anything, just saying. His decision to stay is his decision.

Well that's my point. Those who can flee, do. Most people can't flee.

And did you see the way we're treating refugees? Most people fail to understand there's even a war going on.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#435

Post by emilecantin » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 4:40 PM UTC

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #265

iamthepieman wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you feel judgemental or upset when people exist that are very wrong according to your morality? No. Something I stil haven't found a way to explain is that I can disagree with someone or even think that someone's very personal decision is not a good one without feeling ill will towards them. One of the fundamental teachings of christianity that many non-christians (and some christians even) are not aware of is t…

I see, neat! Thanks for enlightening a bit. I still have a long way to go to understand Christianity, it seems.

It's quite simple, really: «Love one another». This is THE thing that Jesus said we should do, and it takes precedence over anything else.

For example, sure, some minor book in the Bible might say that's it's kinda bad to be gay, but hating other people that disrespect a minor recommendation is contrary to the most important commandment.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#436

Post by tome » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 4:41 PM UTC

drumdance wrote: post #433

will_brown wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IS = an ideological network of individuals hiding among civilian populations across the globe US = an nation state with an identifiable military subjected to rule of law >and both sides are very clearly not very precise in who they actually target (the bombing on Doctor's Without Border, anyone?). Both sides cause tons of civilian casualties For better or worse the US is operating on intelligence specifically designe…

I donn't think the US is exactly the same as ISIS, but the fact remains that our invasion of Iraq was a war of choice. When you're under attack from a vastly superior military, your options for response are very limited. It's hard for us in the US to even conceive what it would be like to be in that situation. The only analog is a War of the Worlds style invasion by aliens.

This is certainly a fair point as far as it goes[1], but let's not forgot that Islamic terror was directed at the US for many years before Iraq!

[1] and I still hold the idea that I held in 2003, that the Iraq war was a completely idiotic veture

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#437

Post by Cyph0n » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 4:42 PM UTC

redial wrote: post #411

Cyph0n wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are entitled to your opinion. As a Muslim, I feel sorry for those who don't get Islam's message yet believe they do when all they're seeing is the surface.

When the message starts with a private 'revelation', not to me but to others, that I have to unquestionably accept giving some other mammal total control over my mind or be tortured forever, I don't need to be told anymore. It's insulting, childish, it belongs in the infancy of our species and it needs to be outgrown, never mind how 'good' it makes you feel inside.

What private revelation? Go to your nearest bookstore and pick up the Quran. Problem solved.

"Other mammal" here refers to what exactly? As for punishment, that happens when you intentionally deny the existence of the Creator, even when given the access to His word and religion. Islam teaches us that human beings are born pure and good by default, unlike other religions.

Suppose you lived your life on a remote island, never knowing about Islam or the Quran. In that case, you will be treated as if you lived your whole life as a Muslim in the hereafter. Why? Because you did not actively and intentionally deny it, and were not aware of its existence.

If you think religion is childish, OK. I don't.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#438

Post by Cyph0n » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 4:44 PM UTC

jules wrote: post #401

Cyph0n wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are entitled to your opinion. As a Muslim, I feel sorry for those who don't get Islam's message yet believe they do when all they're seeing is the surface.

I'm an atheist as well, but I realize that this may be just out of ignorance since I don't really know why somebody believes. Would you be willing to have a conversation about your faith so that I can understand the perspective of somebody who does believe?

Of course! Keep in mind that I'm just an average Muslim, so I might not be able to address all of your questions.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#439

Post by Shihan » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 4:45 PM UTC

acqq wrote: post #350

the_af wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, note that no beheadings have been staged in Vatican City in recent years. True, but I think it's more complex than that. First, I do not think the Vatican automatically represents the most conservative brand of Christianity; not at all times, anyway. Not now, for example. Second, beheadings seem rightfully barbaric and horrendous to us, but as terrible as they are, I think their impact is superficial in a…

> ISIS beheadings are a matter of form, a propaganda tool Wrong. The beheadings are the things Mohammad did, as written in their holy books, so they just do that, following their role model even without the cameras.

Exactly. Their prophet raided caravans, fought against anybody who did not want to convert to his new religion or even sanctioned slave owning and stoning of women (it's all in authentic hadith that belong to mainstream Islam). So how can muslim distance themselves from such things? They really can't but they try anyway by saying "has nothing to do with my religion" to avoid the argument. A better solution would be that they would acknowledge that their prophet isn't a good role model and that some sacred verses and teachings must be discarded as they are not compatible with human rights. But no, they repeat the great marketing slogan that "Islam is a religion of peace" and hope that one day it really is. But without self-criticism it will never be one.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#440

Post by omginternets » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 4:46 PM UTC

gotchange wrote: post #247

omginternets wrote: post #41

I'm living in Paris. I heard gunfire from my apartment. My heart goes out to Salah-Eddin, and all people living in the shadow of unspeakable abominations. It saddens me to imagine that simply hearing gunfire in the distance is nothing compared to what my fellow man has witnessed elsewhere. Salah-Eddin's condolences mean a lot to me and I wish him all the best. It's my sincerest hope that French troops will be deploye…

> It's my sincerest hope that French troops will be deployed to Syria in the near future, Maybe you should join the counter-terrorism forces or intelligence community instead to help your country, if that what you're actually after, not just blind revenge because you have to admit that these attacks were a big SNAFUS on the French security apparatus part and some heads got to roll over this but I was amazed to see th…

>Maybe you should join the counter-terrorism forces or intelligence community instead to help your country, if that what you're actually after, not just blind revenge

I posted it further below, but the reserve corps are not what you seem to think they are. Reservists patrol cities, especially airports and train stations.

I'm not going to war; I just want to be on the front lines when the war comes to me, because someone has to be the trigger-man and I'm capable of doing it. I should add that I have no desire to kill another human being, even a daesh soldier. From what I've heard it's a burden you carry for the rest of your life. But, I'd rather do that then do nothing for a third time.