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VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

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Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#411

Post by redial »

Cyph0n wrote: post #371
lottin wrote: post #333

As an atheist, I see Islam as a barbaric belief system of some ancient cave men. Sorry but I feel very difficult to empathise with people who in this day and age feel so strongly about religion.

You are entitled to your opinion. As a Muslim, I feel sorry for those who don't get Islam's message yet believe they do when all they're seeing is the surface.

When the message starts with a private 'revelation', not to me but to others, that I have to unquestionably accept giving some other mammal total control over my mind or be tortured forever, I don't need to be told anymore. It's insulting, childish, it belongs in the infancy of our species and it needs to be outgrown, never mind how 'good' it makes you feel inside.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#412

Post by venomsnake »

oblio wrote: post #239
venomsnake wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support freedom of speech - absolute and unrestricted. I don't support freedom of religion, but support freedom from religion - no other human should be able to force religion on other. The religion should be private matter to the individual and individual alone.

> I support freedom of speech - absolute and unrestricted. What if my "free speech" involves drawing masses of people and telling them, persuading them, to kill you, your wife, your kids, your mother and father because you have the wrong skin color, eye color, religion or whatever else I imagine?

Well I will gather a bigger rally and convince them to defend me. Or will convince them that you are the real threat. Or I will convince your people that you are just a phony that copulated with pigs in high school.

Here is a good rule of thumb - any restrictions on speech hurt the weaker side more ...

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#413

Post by kyleblarson »

iamthepieman wrote: post #37

I work with a Muslim and I'm a Christian. Since we are both very conservative, I actually have more in common with him than with my secular coworkers and friends. Unfortunately we both work remotely and live several hundred miles from each other. I think we could be good friends if we lived closer. One thing I have learned talking with my Muslim coworker is that, just like in Christianity, there are many divisions an…

Religions are nothing more than organized ignorance, so it is completely unsurprising that violence sprouts from them.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#414

Post by kefka »

omginternets wrote: post #53
seivan wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck in the Army! The Middle East doesn't need more foreign bodybags (good or bad guys) but support, training and equipment. Last I checked they are begging for armor and winter gear.

I'm only going to be a weekend-warrior! Reservists essentially patrol Paris (especially airports and train stations), so there's zero chance of me going abroad unless I volunteer. Frankly, this is why I think enlisting as a reservist is a worthwhile and not-too-damaging thing to do. At the end of the day, someone needs to pull the trigger, sickening though this thought may be. I hope I won't have to, but I'd rather d…

In a way, I wish the US had something similar as the French's idea of reservists. Technically, we do, as the National Guard. However, they are abused and used on foreign deployments.

Then again, I doubt they would accept me, given I have an arm injury that prevents a bit of motion above shoulder height.. (I'm 6'5" or ~2m tall)

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#415

Post by powertower »

coldtea wrote: post #385
powertower wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... (slavery, murder, and Hitler) You are using the "someone did some bad things some time ago ( and now that I've put things into perspective for you ), lets be open minded about another someone doing another something bad right now, because it's only fare!" argument.

> You are using the "someone did some bad things some time ago (and now that I've put things into perspective for you), lets allow another someone do another something bad right now, because it's only fare!" argument. So many misunderstandings I don't know where to start. First, did I say anywhere "lets allow another someone do another something bad right now, because it's only fare!"? No, and that's why you didn't d…

> Second, I don't try to justify or excuse (I mean, Jesus!), just to put in perspective and explain.

That's the point, you are putting in perspective unrelated things and unrelated places and unrelated times...

None of the events you listed are related to the polling results that almost half of Muslims think that death should be the penalty for apostasy. That's something inherent to the ideology and its resulting culture.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#416

Post by gotchange »

MrPatan wrote: post #400

Religion is a smoke screen. Does it matter if you chop bits off your kids "because a book told me to" or "because my mom told me to"? All religions are silly ridiculous relics. Let's stop talking about them. The problem is the culture as a whole. Does it work? Or does it not work? The way to know if a culture works is to look at migration patterns. People leave cultures that don't work and go to better cultures. But…

Migration patterns, really?

People have been migrating from everywhere even from the west to the Gulf countries for quite some time now. Does this make their culture any better than any of the migrants'?

Of course not as national wealth and net immigration numbers are not relevant in this discussion.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#417

Post by tome »

jacquesm wrote: post #405
raverbashing wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see precious little difference to an attack on Fallujah to 'liberate' it and an attack on Paris to murder a bunch of people. Oh of course, they're the same thing. Bombing civilians (without those being the explicit target) in a military context is exactly the same thing as just invading a concert room or shooting randomly at people You're missing the context and the intent, just that. But I can see your ideology…

So, what is my ideology then? That violence is a means of last resort? That problems should be tackled at the root, not by attacking the symptoms? That religion - which I personally do not subscribe to - has problems, no matter where but that freedom of speech automatically implies freedom of religion and so it's here to stay and will have to be accommodated, in all it's forms? Pick some, they're all true. Bombing ci…

> Bombing civilians in a trumped up war about resources is to the victims exactly [jacquesm's emphasis] the same as shooting randomly at people.

This is absolutely, truly, astonishing.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#418

Post by omginternets »

0xFFC wrote: post #159
omginternets wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully (and partially) disagree. The invasion of Iraq was stupid, reckless and selfish. It was a for-profit war that destabilized the region and allowed ISIS to take on its present form. I'll have you remember that France staunchly opposed this war. Now the US and the brits have left us with a veritable cesspool, and we're bearing the brunt of the consequences. This isn't a liberation attempt or a preemptive…

Am pretty angry about what is going on in world , so if you felt insulted , I am so sorry , and You should understand I don't want to insult you or any other person specifically,But I want insult Ideologies pretty badly. As person who LIVES in heart of middle east (Iran) and I have seen shia militant from very close(I know people who works in IRGC),You are completely and pure wrong , do you know what would generate a…

I certainly don't feel insulted, and I can only imagine your immense frustration.

I must, however, disagree with the notion that this isn't our war. When my countrymen get slaughtered in the streets, it is de facto my war. And to be clear, there are elements of Western foreign policy that I condemn as harshly as you, if not more.

Where I do agree with you is with regards to the fact that military action is a short-term stopgap and not a long-term solution. I think you're very lucid in your analysis: this is a cultural war, not of East vs West, but of obscurantism vs enlightenment. I'm well aware -- and indeed very reassured -- to know that most Persians and Arabs are on my side, and I on theirs.

>I would suspect Saudi Arabia ( the US closest ally after Israel in middle east).Can you fucking believe it ?

There are no words to describe how enraged I am by the state of global politics. I wouldn't dare suggest that military action fixes the larger problem, but I'm fairly convinced that killing jihadis is necessary, albeit insufficient.

In any case, I really hope to visit Iran someday (as a civilian, obviously). It's by far the Middle Eastern country that fascinates me the most. :)

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#419

Post by jacquesm »

rmc wrote: post #314
crusso wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Significant numbers of non-Islam subscribers hold ideas that are incompatible with an open society too If that's your contention then you'd need to account for the high terrorist attack output of Islamists vs other non-Islam subscribers.

There are many many nationalist terrorist groups (e.g. IRA) or communist terrorist groups (e.g. Red Army Faction). The IRA almost killed the British Prime Minister. There actually aren't that much Muslim terrorist attacks

A lone gunman managed to derail dutch politics for decades.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#420

Post by criddell »

iamthepieman wrote: post #37

I work with a Muslim and I'm a Christian. Since we are both very conservative, I actually have more in common with him than with my secular coworkers and friends. Unfortunately we both work remotely and live several hundred miles from each other. I think we could be good friends if we lived closer. One thing I have learned talking with my Muslim coworker is that, just like in Christianity, there are many divisions an…

I had it explained to me that if a sect comparable to ISIS where to arise in Christianity, it would basically be one that wants to enforce Old Testament rules. That's what ISIS is - a revival of early Islam.
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