VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks • Hacker News Board

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#111

Post by megalodon » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 12:38 PM UTC

cygx wrote: post #64

iamthepieman wrote: post #37

I work with a Muslim and I'm a Christian. Since we are both very conservative, I actually have more in common with him than with my secular coworkers and friends. Unfortunately we both work remotely and live several hundred miles from each other. I think we could be good friends if we lived closer. One thing I have learned talking with my Muslim coworker is that, just like in Christianity, there are many divisions an…

Of course it's not "all Muslisms". But those who claim "it's only the terrorists" or "it's all politics" do not grasp the scope of the problem, ie that globally speaking, a significant number of adherents of Islam hold ideas that are incompatible with an open society. If you naively extrapolate from the 2013 Pew Poll The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society (which in principle represents nations with a tot…

World's largest arms exporter: US ($10,194,000,000 in 2014)

World's largest arms importer: Saudi Arabia ($4,243,000,000 in 2014)

To me, these are scary numbers.

> When a country decides to invest in arms, rather than in education, housing, the environment, and health services for its people, it is depriving a whole generation of its right to prosperity and happiness. We have produced one firearm for every ten inhabitants of this planet, and yet we have not bothered to end hunger when such a feat is well within our reach. Our international regulations allow almost three-quarters of all global arms sales to pour into the developing world with no binding international guidelines whatsoever. Our regulations do not hold countries accountable for what is done with the weapons they sell, even when the probable use of such weapons is obvious. – Oscar Arias Sanchez, 1987 Nobel Peace Prize winner

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry#World.27s_larges...

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#112

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 12:39 PM UTC

drinchev wrote: post #95

iamthepieman wrote: post #37

I work with a Muslim and I'm a Christian. Since we are both very conservative, I actually have more in common with him than with my secular coworkers and friends. Unfortunately we both work remotely and live several hundred miles from each other. I think we could be good friends if we lived closer. One thing I have learned talking with my Muslim coworker is that, just like in Christianity, there are many divisions an…

Hello. I really like your honesty, courage and passion that I can sense from what you wrote. I don't want to sound offending, but you are saying that you are happy to discuss this and I have almost no contact with deep religious persons that are in IT, so I have a couple of questions. 1. Where is the boundary of your beliefs? I'm always trying to be polite with my dev co-workers, but for example if I write a flagged…

You're not addressing me so apologies for butting in but the human brain is perfectly capable of holding contradicting viewpoints at the same time.

This quote is attributed to F Scott Fitzgerald: "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."

My grandmother was deeply religious (Catholic) and yet was very much down to earth and practical when it came to every day life. It never seemed as if she had any apparent problem with this. Religious people are not computer programs and do not need to pass some kind of unit test for consistency before they are allowed into production.

And plenty of so called rational people hold contradictory beliefs as well, in fact I'd be surprised if anybody had a completely consistent set of beliefs and facts that they subscribed to.

Case in point: I have a close family member that is extremely rational except for that one point where we are descended from primates, that's one step too far.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#113

Post by rogeryu » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 12:41 PM UTC

iamthepieman wrote: post #37

I work with a Muslim and I'm a Christian. Since we are both very conservative, I actually have more in common with him than with my secular coworkers and friends. Unfortunately we both work remotely and live several hundred miles from each other. I think we could be good friends if we lived closer. One thing I have learned talking with my Muslim coworker is that, just like in Christianity, there are many divisions an…

It's the same that ultra right or neo conservatives have more in common with ultra left or communists or ultra religious groups that go for political power. It's the extreme that makes them understand and appreciate eachother (or their cause) better.

It's not that they like or support eachother, but knowing how the other thinks makes a difference. For them it's much more difficult to understand how moderate left or right works and can be influenced. There's a good chance that they fear "moderate" people more than those on the opposite end of their thinking, simply because they don't understand them.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#114

Post by realityking » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 12:41 PM UTC

atmosx wrote: post #59

slowmotiony wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, suicide bombers shouting "Allah akhbar" is definitely political, nothing to do with religion at all.

The roots of this mess are political: France wanted Assad ousted at every cost, a policy that suited the US too since Assad was in business with Russia. That's why the ISIS was allowed to grow and receive funding . I know shocking isn't it? Now that France knows that the ISIS, retards as they are, are not easy to control. France will have to decide: Either you leave Syria to the Russians or you leave the ISIS be and…

> It's crystal clear that the population there wants and supports Assad.

Do you have a source on that? From what I've read there are plenty of opposition groups still fighting Assad (and ISIS).

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#115

Post by omginternets » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 12:42 PM UTC

utku_karatas2 wrote: post #91

omginternets wrote: post #41

I'm living in Paris. I heard gunfire from my apartment. My heart goes out to Salah-Eddin, and all people living in the shadow of unspeakable abominations. It saddens me to imagine that simply hearing gunfire in the distance is nothing compared to what my fellow man has witnessed elsewhere. Salah-Eddin's condolences mean a lot to me and I wish him all the best. It's my sincerest hope that French troops will be deploye…

> It's my sincerest hope that French troops will be deployed to Syria in the near future This kind of thinking is exactly why Mid-east is in its current state and that is exactly the reason why ISIS was born. ISIS high command mainly consists of Iraqi ex-officers, who were rendered jobless and aimless by USA's 'liberation' attempt. Al-Qaida was a result of a 'liberation' attempt by Soviets and then consequently anoth…

I respectfully (and partially) disagree.

The invasion of Iraq was stupid, reckless and selfish. It was a for-profit war that destabilized the region and allowed ISIS to take on its present form.

I'll have you remember that France staunchly opposed this war.

Now the US and the brits have left us with a veritable cesspool, and we're bearing the brunt of the consequences.

This isn't a liberation attempt or a preemptive strike. This is responding to an immediate threat. And again, it would be foolish and disastrous to only respond militarily, but it's just as foolish not to protect ourselves from immediate threats while we counter persistent threats through non-military action.

Yours is a false dichotomy.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#116

Post by amake » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 12:42 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #97

amake wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you accept all of the other irrational tenets of the religion, then why not accept the idea that god wants you to bomb children? And if you believe that's really what god wants, then who are you to refuse?

People will believe whatever it is that they want to believe, religious texts can be twisted to support just about any position, or the opposite to that position.

> religious texts can be twisted to support just about any position

...which is exactly why I said we should reject irrational beliefs.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#117

Post by Vivtek » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 12:43 PM UTC

cygx wrote: post #64

iamthepieman wrote: post #37

I work with a Muslim and I'm a Christian. Since we are both very conservative, I actually have more in common with him than with my secular coworkers and friends. Unfortunately we both work remotely and live several hundred miles from each other. I think we could be good friends if we lived closer. One thing I have learned talking with my Muslim coworker is that, just like in Christianity, there are many divisions an…

Of course it's not "all Muslisms". But those who claim "it's only the terrorists" or "it's all politics" do not grasp the scope of the problem, ie that globally speaking, a significant number of adherents of Islam hold ideas that are incompatible with an open society. If you naively extrapolate from the 2013 Pew Poll The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society (which in principle represents nations with a tot…

You obviously have a blind spot towards American-brand Christianity. Speaking of scary numbers and scary access to nuclear weapons perfectly capable of killing you, me, and the other seven billion of us.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#118

Post by ramblerman » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 12:43 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #69

slowmotiony wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, suicide bombers shouting "Allah akhbar" is definitely political, nothing to do with religion at all.

Just like World War II was a religious war because soldiers held to their crosses and died crying out to their god. Germans had even "Gott mit uns" written on a handgun. It was obviously a religious conflict. Honestly, I'm starting to believe media is painting terrorism as religion issue on purpose - because it's easier to hate the other side if you can assume it's their faith that makes them want to hurt you. You do…

Foreign policy certainly created circumstances that enabled the creation of Isis.

But homosexuals thrown off rooftops, infidels and adulterers stoned in the market square, and young girls raped and sold as sex slaves is not a political result. Neither was the targeting of Charlie Hebdo over a few cartoons of a long deceased man.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#119

Post by cygx » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 12:43 PM UTC

Angostura wrote: post #100

cygx wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's not "all Muslisms". But those who claim "it's only the terrorists" or "it's all politics" do not grasp the scope of the problem, ie that globally speaking, a significant number of adherents of Islam hold ideas that are incompatible with an open society. If you naively extrapolate from the 2013 Pew Poll The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society (which in principle represents nations with a tot…

I really hate that Pew Survey. It polls people from some of the most culturally conservative countries and then uses that to make assertions about Islam. I wish Pew had interviewed Christians in the same countries at the same time and asked them what they thought should be done to homosexuals. It would be interesting to see what we could glean about Christianity.

Make no mistake, I'm not a fan of 'conservative' Christianity. As I mentioned elsewhere, the problems are ideologies, in particular those that promote totalitarianism and unreason - whether or not they are religious in nature is incidental to me.

However, note that no beheadings have been staged in Vatican City in recent years.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#120

Post by hk__2 » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 12:44 PM UTC

omginternets wrote: post #41

I'm living in Paris. I heard gunfire from my apartment. My heart goes out to Salah-Eddin, and all people living in the shadow of unspeakable abominations. It saddens me to imagine that simply hearing gunfire in the distance is nothing compared to what my fellow man has witnessed elsewhere. Salah-Eddin's condolences mean a lot to me and I wish him all the best. It's my sincerest hope that French troops will be deploye…

> the Parisian battlefield (yes... that's sadly what it has become)

Could you expand on that? I live in Paris too and I don’t feel it has anything different from another city like London or New-York regarding security.