I born Muslim but quit religion as soon as I understood how everything works. I'm against every single organized religion. It's just a device for dictatorship in my opinion. But Islam is just like Christianity and other religions you might know. It's a old school of thought with super vague sources. Anyone can have their own take. I can read the Bible and say according to it I should kill and rape, same for Quran. They are all the same and they are all stupid. Don't discriminate between stupid religions!
VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks
381–390 of 737 posts
Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you want to consider the list (that's as long as my arm) of Islamic terror attacks in the 21st century "insignificant", then that's on you, I guess. It's absolutely not inconsistent to hold the view that Islamically-inspired terror is a big problem for the world, whilst simultaneously holding the view that the vast majority of muslims are peaceful. I don't know why anyone would think otherwise.
Its entirely consistent to hold the view that Islamic terrorists are a problem for the world without also believing that the majority of Muslims are terrorists. This seems similar to saying that I can't consider people being hit by cars a problem without also saying that the vast majority of car journeys result in someone being hit. A vocal and deplorable minority of Muslims are actively attempted to split the world…
> believing that the majority of Muslims are terrorists
Nobody in this thread has suggested this
> ... declare all Muslims want me dead ...
nor this.
Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks
#383Earlier quoted context omitted.
Counting "number of attacks" is extremely misleading (I'm tempted to think, deliberately so). A moment's Googling shows that Islamic terror is responsible for the majority of deaths, by a long way http://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7552225/terrorism-europe-chart (and you can add a big chunk of green for France November 2015 now too)
Speaking of cherry-picking data, no comment on the 2nd and 3rd points? As I said, I agree that terrorism (no matter how you categorize the attacks) is a significant problem, but that linking it with Islam is choosing to be manipulated by the extremists.
I don't think that the numbers of ISIS and the numbers of muslims worldwide bear meaningful comparison.
Your third point I responded to in another reply.
Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks
#384Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. And you tell them in no unertain terms that they are wrong, instead of making excuses because "it's their culture" or because of freedom of religion. Harmful ideologies do not get a free pass in my book just because they claim divine backing.
Try suggesting that Americans give up their guns, and you'll hear a lot about culture. Suggest that some places in USA don't fly a CSA flag and you'll hear about culture. Tell some christians that they need to teach their kids that's it's OK to be gay, and you'll hear a lot about religion and freedom of religion.
The veil of ignorance [1] is a very nice step in the quest for a universal human morality. It abstracts away culture and makes biases and prejudices painfully clear, whatever the cultural background to reveal universal human values.
Try to imagine being a black islamic lesbian undocumented immigrant in a small bible belt town. You have little knowledge of the English language. An immunology disorder makes it dangerous for you to get a vaccination. Your hobby is collecting fossils. Your neighbors would have to throw quite a bit of their culture out of the window if they really want to treat you with the respect you deserve as a human. Good people will make the effort, and rightly so.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veil_ofA very strong reason for moving moral positions for may... _ignorance
Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks
#385Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There is no 40% group of the population in Europe that holds views that are anywhere near as disgusting as that. Well, only 50+ years ago there was an over 40% population in the US that thought that blacks were inferior and shouldn't sit in the same restaurants/hotels/schools with whites. In fact it was even law in some states. Beyond that, there were about all major western countries, France, UK, Belgium, Holland,…
> ... (slavery, murder, and Hitler) You are using the "someone did some bad things some time ago ( and now that I've put things into perspective for you ), lets be open minded about another someone doing another something bad right now, because it's only fare!" argument.
>You are using the "someone did some bad things some time ago (and now that I've put things into perspective for you), lets allow another someone do another something bad right now, because it's only fare!" argument.
So many misunderstandings I don't know where to start.
First, did I say anywhere "lets allow another someone do another something bad right now, because it's only fare!"?
No, and that's why you didn't directly quote from my comment. In fact in it I very precisely write: "We should condemn all violence -- not forgive the one that has better PR and is done by cool looking people who have the same background as us.".
Second, I don't try to justify or excuse (I mean, Jesus!), just to put in perspective and explain. And one main I try to explain is that "40% of people" believing a horrible thing is neither irredeemable, nor unknown for even in our countries, even in the time of our fathers and grandfathers. Those people grew up in countries that resulted of those conditions and heard those horror stories from their relatives.
Third, as I noted it's not "some time ago", it's something ongoing. Foreign powers still plunder, meddle and hold those countries down, with unbelievably far greater blood tolls than all those attacks combined.
So, more like "If you fuck people over repeatedly, including having a history of enslaving their parents, you shouldn't be that surprised that they might come and hit you back, or that they develop a cult of hating you and what you stand for".
Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks
#386Earlier quoted context omitted.
Up until a few weeks ago I used to think that religion is just a facade, but I no longer think that is true. Religion is the center of their beliefs, and a very important factor that drives their actions. When the Boston bomber says "Know you are fighting men who look into the barrel of your gun and see heaven, how can you compete with that?" he is not lying. This is what these people truly believe. They think the me…
> "Know you are fighting men who look into the barrel of your gun and see heaven, how can you compete with that?" Do not give them death them. Give them suffering for years and years without the release of death. Let's see how they enjoy that.
I agree but in a different way. We should try to capture terrorists and put them in prison for life, and let Imams and psychologists work on them to convince them that what they did is wrong. To their fellow terrorists this means that they are now going to hell instead of heaven, because according to them the only way into heaven is by their cult ideology. That is what they fear most. The only deterrent is the possibility of hell, not the possibility of death.
Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks
#387I work with a Muslim and I'm a Christian. Since we are both very conservative, I actually have more in common with him than with my secular coworkers and friends. Unfortunately we both work remotely and live several hundred miles from each other. I think we could be good friends if we lived closer. One thing I have learned talking with my Muslim coworker is that, just like in Christianity, there are many divisions an…
There are many sects in Islam, but only two major ones: Sunni (90%) and Shia(10%). Shia in turn are divided into many different ones. Sunnis don't have any subdivisions. The salafist/wahabist movement within Sunnism stresses that people take everything in Islam literally and follow a very strict interpretation. When we talk about radicalism or a certain percentage of Muslims in the world wanting apostates being punishable by death, we are largely referring to sunni muslims.
Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks
#388Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you actually going to put some lone nut jobs here and there on the same level as organized and determined jihadists? If so, you need to include the tens of thousands of murdered people that ISIS has been responsible for. You'll need to include the Russian jet that was blown up, the attack in Paris, and all those killed by al-qaeda on 9/11, etc. You'll also need to explain why the FBI terrorist list doesn't show t…
We define away the problem. White people shooting others is not usually considered terrorism (such as a mass shooting committed by a white person). Terrorism is used to label actions by people you don't like. Some politicians even make statements calling the president a terrorist because he does something they don't like. We don't call it terrorism when the American government kidnapped people, took them to other cou…
White people shooting others is not usually considered terrorism
If those white people were part of a religious movement indiscriminately targeting the larger society, then of course they would be labeled "terrorists". Do you have an example of where I'm wrong?
calling the president a terrorist
If you'll recall, the White House referred to the GOP as suicide bombers over debt ceiling negotiations. That's political posturing when either side does it and has little to do with legitimate use of the word "terrorists" in the context of labeling organizations seeking to maximize loss of life and destruction through surprise attacks on civilians.
Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
God has little to do with political plays. Not all muslim extremist are believers, just like not all the american politicians who say they're christians are actually christians[0]. More often than not, it's a facade from the leaders to draw in more pawn soldiers who believe in the cause. You talk a lot about not having a clue on "the reality of the conflicts" and yet, you are unable to take a step back and look from…
Regarding "God", certainly a lot of terrorising has happened at the hands of secular Middle Eastern entities, from Ghaddafi to Saddam to the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Bridages. My "in the large" sweeps a lot under the carpet! We're hardly going to be able to tease this one out over a Hacker News thread. EDIT: Sorry for making this personal. Some details removed.
> We're hardly going to be able to tease this one out over a Hacker News thread. I was just surprised to see someone I esteem so highly as jacquesm expousing what is, to my mind, such an ill-informed opinion. I have no intention of taking it any further.
That's rich, given that you all but dragged the whole thing out in the first place.
If you're ready to call me 'ill informed' and you're unable to see that to victims of war it hardly matters whether the perpetrator is two old white guys praying in an old building for guidance or some Imam in a mosque who by remote control pull the trigger then indeed, I should have left this well alone. But trust me, as long as that is a thing that can not be discussed with some dispassion this mess will not end, it will only get (much) worse.
Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks
#390An interesting video summary of the history of the Syria war/mess (5 mins). You don't know who to blame really. It's a shame both Russia and Turkey said they were sending bombers to attack ISIS and then went after other targets instead (the anti Assad forces, Kurds respectively). http://www.vox.com/2015/11/14/9735102/syria-isis-history-vid...
I've learned more about Islam, ISIS, and the state of affairs in Syria from this article than anywhere else. I wish I could TL;DR this one, but I can't. It's so full of details and context I wouldn't do it justice. It's a long one, but absolutely worth it.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isi...