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Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

nytimes.com

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Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#601

Post by jacquesm »

olavk wrote: post #573
Fluid_Mechanics wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we didn't need to secure their oil by supporting/deposing despots in the region, and didn't want to provide the Israelis with military/political/financial support then we would not be dealing with any of this carnage. Their attempts to fight back will only escalate the situation, and the carnage will continue. Edit: I'm not advocating that we not support Israel. I'm simply stating a hard truth regarding "why they…

It is amazing how many in this thread who make declarations about the underlying political causes for this tragedy. As far as I know, no group have yet claimed responsibilities and very little is known about the perpetrators at this point. Theories have been put forth that they are either IS or al-Queda, two groups with quite different history and agenda. And it is still not confirmed it is either. So any attempt at…

"Paris attacks: Islamic State says killings were response to Syria strikes"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/14/paris-terr...

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#602

Post by testrun »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #317
usaphp wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think Stalin was as bad as ISIS and Nazis? edit: Why downvotes? I've asked a question, I wonder how western people see Stalin in history. I as Russian see him as the one who was involved in defeating Nazis

> So you think Stalin was as bad as ISIS and Nazis? The general consensus is that Germany under Hitler killed around 11 million noncombatants. The USSR under Stalin killed at least 20 million, with some estimates ranging much higher. Many people in the west still say that Hitler was worse because he tried to exterminate entire ethnic groups, where Stalin mostly killed anyone that he thought might get in his way. I th…

As far as Stalin and ethnic cleansing goes, he did not do to badly himself (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Sov...).

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#603

Post by arcadeparade »

threeseed wrote: post #552
arcadeparade wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also carry their religion, genes and culture. And with that comes a clash of civilisations. With open gates: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cb0_1447249820

> Multiculturalism has never, at any time in human history, worked anywhere What a load of complete and utter nonsense. I am embarrassed to even see that link on this site. Multiculturalism is working just fine in Australia right now. In fact it is largely how this country was built. And just like most Western countries we have a fringe right who are xenophobic and anti immigrant but by and large the population welco…

Australia wasn't built on multiculturalism. The native culture was destroyed and Australia was built on its ruins.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#604

Post by hokkos »

cm2187 wrote: post #203
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a major problem is that even they can't know who among them - in the big groups of refugees making the journey - is an isis member or supporter, and even if they're not, there's no telling who is going to radicalise in the future. The attacks earlier this year in paris weren't done by someone that came from that area, iirc.

The French TV mentions that the terrorists were speaking French. And based on previous attacks it is more likely to be home grown terrorists. Syria is probably just a pretext, like a lot of European leftists in the 70s were using the Palestinian situation to justify their terrorist attacks.

This is probably french terrorists, but they probably did this because they couldn't go in Syria or were ordered to do it in France from Syria. There is hundreds of young french men and few women who went there. There is every week in France a group of muslim terrorists that are arrested because they were ordered or prepared a strike. One time a group a 10 terrorists was arrested.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#605

Post by jacquesm »

ianamartin wrote: post #342
livatlantis wrote: post #100

In Paris right now. We are in shock. At both the scale and the extremely coordinated nature of the attacks on civilians at multiple locations. I work near rue Bichat and Le Petit Cambodge, a warm little restaurant in the 10e that my colleagues and I frequent, where people were tonight killed. The Bataclan is a well-known concert venue for metal bands, where I've seen several bands play live. Les Halles is at the cent…

You have thoughts and good wishes coming from NYC and from Texas. I'm in New York; my dad is in Texas. My dad is a WW2 veteran. He fought on the front lines of Normandy Beach, The Battle of France, and Liege, among other places like the Battle of the Bulge. He was housed in France by people there who welcomed and supported him. He was assisted by the underground resistance. He has an enormous amount of love for the F…

I spent a day last year tracking down a war grave in France and was very much impressed with the absolutely incredible state of maintenance of the graves. One cemetery after another that looked absolutely impeccable and as if it had been created last week instead of many decades ago.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#606

Post by kpil »

tormeh wrote: post #254
cm2187 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The French TV mentions that the terrorists were speaking French. And based on previous attacks it is more likely to be home grown terrorists. Syria is probably just a pretext, like a lot of European leftists in the 70s were using the Palestinian situation to justify their terrorist attacks.

Hm... Interesting parallels: In the 70s, European communist terrorism was widespread because of support from the Soviet Union. Now, European islamist terrorism is widespread because of support from the middle east. I'm aware that the CIA et al. have been doing exactly the same thing, but it's just a sad pattern.

Unfortunately, if one correlates the money, the particular religious flavour, and some incentives in loss of influence in certain neighbour countries, it would point to certain gulf states that we seem to be reliant on for oil. Regard as allies even.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#607

Post by Chathamization »

jules wrote: post #580
Chathamization wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very much so. My guess is if you decide to look at the angry dispossessed young men demographic, you're going to see a group more prone to violence than you would by looking at any racial or religious demographic.

Then why is it the case that virtually all these terrorist attacks come from 1 religion, which coincidentally happens to be the religion whose scripture makes this kind of behaviour rational when interpreted literally?

Because people with certain biases who want to ignore evidence and blame this all on Islam to define "these terrorist attacks" in a way that excludes many similar attacks? We've been averaging about one mass shooting a day in the U.S. There are so many that I'd forgotten about some major recent ones, like the Umpqua Community College Shooting just a month ago.

These usually get planned well in advance by some very sick people who are trying to kill as many people as they can and go out in a blaze of glory. Sure, the existence of opportunistic terrorists networks that get these people to coordinate their attacks and stamp a ideology on them tends to mean that the one day body count is higher for a particular incident. Still, the body count per attacker is often comparable, it's just that the attacks happen on the same day instead of a few weeks apart.

But yeah, if we ignore the non-Muslims who do things like this we can say it's all the fault of Muslims.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#608

Post by jacquesm »

ArekDymalski wrote: post #169
rquantz wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terrorism is usually a rational act. It is terrible, but it has political goals. This, for instance, may be aimed at ending the European involvement in Syria and their taking in refugees.

It might be not about political goals: http://www.gwern.net/Terrorism%20is%20not%20Effective

That link gets way too much airtime. As much as I usually like Gwerns analysis this one seems in spite of the mountain of citations to miss the point entirely.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#609

Post by mercurial »

SHIT_TALKER wrote: post #578
mercurial wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context: the French king Charles X was in a difficult political situation and needed money, so attacking the then-Ottoman-dominated Algeria looked like a good idea at the time. The slave trade had stopped years ago, and the pirate activity, while not over, was way down.

The slave trade had stopped years ago, and the pirate activity, while not over, was way down. Thanks to military defeats at the hands of Americans, English, and Dutch.

I'm not sure where you're going with that.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#610

Post by mercurial »

scrollaway wrote: post #559
mercurial wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it is possible that ISIS would try to infiltrate operators this way (in fact, they caught a convicted terrorist in Italy hiding as a refugee a few days ago).

Possible, yes. Efficient, not really. If they don't get in this way they'll get in another way - closing down borders is about just as efficient as the ban on drugs at stoping drug cartels.

I'm not disputing that, but I'm saying it's not an irrational concern.
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