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Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

nytimes.com

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Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#391

Post by TeMPOraL »

mikeash wrote: post #387
TeMPOraL wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Howdy, lefties? Still arguing for disarming the citizens and letting in imigrants without control?" -- a (translation of a) friend's post on Facebook I just saw. Yes, they will make those comments. They always do, even if nothing is happening.

Yes, and they should be kept to Facebook and news article comment sections where they belong, not brought preemptively here.

Fair enough.

But it doesn't change the fact that general population will say these things, and it's them, not HN crowd, that shapes policy. I am seriously, true to God, afraid of what's going to happen now - afraid of overreaction of people and governments.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#392

Post by Chathamization »

toyg wrote: post #299
jules wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think that the sincere belief that you will spend an eternity in heaven and secure a place in heaven for 70 family members of your choosing and earn the love of God has nothing to do with it? It's hard for people who are not religious fundamentalists to understand that some people really believe this with as much certainty as you and I believe that the sun will rise tomorrow. This belief is precisely why s…

> Why blow yourself up when you can make a bomb and then another and another? To avoid having to endure the consequences of your own actions. For people with nothing to lose, suicide attacks are actually the most risk-averse choice: regardless of the possible existence of an afterworld, you're certain to escape punishment in this world. Look at Columbine-style attacks - no religion there, just semi-rational choices.…

Very much so. My guess is if you decide to look at the angry dispossessed young men demographic, you're going to see a group more prone to violence than you would by looking at any racial or religious demographic.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#393

Post by kalleboo »

gotchange wrote: post #186
bensandcastle wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no gates. There is a sign. http://travel.jeffersoncampervan.com/Pictures/PixoriginalSit... Cross border travel within the EU is like moving between states in the US, easy to miss.

What about airports? I'm very positive that they check people's passports and papers in airports.

Only if you're arriving from outside of Schengen. Within Schengen, there are only ID checks if the airline themselves have them there to avoid ticket resales.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#394

Post by mc32 »

toast0 wrote: post #273
VMG wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has had a 0% success rate of achieving political goals http://www.gwern.net/Terrorism%20is%20not%20about%20Terror

How much of that is because when terrorists achieve their political goals, we call them revolutionaries, resistance, freedom fighters, and sometimes insurgents. Only unsuccessful terrorists keep that label.

Sometimes, sometimes. Insurrections typically have an obvious oppression they are trying to overcome. Some insurrections have a terrorist arm, but purely terrorist organizations don't have a direct aim other than cause instability. They don't have an end game. So, I think purely terrorist groups tend to not win as terrorists, sometimes they transform in the process to garner more support and subsequently win but not as pure terrorist organizations but will have become more mainstream.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#395

Post by davesque »

deciplex wrote: post #338
imaginenore wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did stay factual, I even provided a link. If you're going to restrict speech, restrict all mentions of religion, not just the ones that contradict your preconceived notion.

Indeed. The moderation in this thread has been supremely disappointing. Your post contained no slurs, only an interpretation of data along with a link.

No. What dang quoted was a slur.

Definition from http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_eng...:

"An insinuation or allegation about someone that is likely to insult them or damage their reputation"

Saying that "Islam soils the reputation of islam" is a slur by any reasonable interpretation. The link provided some information but the first sentence did nothing to that effect and was simply inflammatory.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#396

Post by spdustin »

downandout wrote: post #386
benihana wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You are trying to rationalize with people who are irrational. In my opinion, this is the most dangerous statement in this thread. Saying the actions of these people is irrational loses any ability to understand why they're doing what they're doing and how we can stop them. It turns them into a faceless enemy who are doing things because of hate, which is easy and makes my ego feel better, but doesn't really explain…

They are doing what they are doing because they have interpreted their primary religious text as explicitly instructing them to kill people that don't believe as they do. Killing another human being that poses no threat to you, regardless of what books you like to read or what instructions you believe they contain, is absolutely irrational - regardless of your "goal". Rational people have no way of understanding thes…

Last I heard, they were doing this to avenge their countrymen. In fact, we don't really know all the whos and the whys, we just know the whats. And what happened was a horrible thing that needs to be investigated, pored over, and responded to in a measured, rational way that doesn't become a nationstate-enabled revenge plot.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#397

Post by josephcooney »

toyg wrote: post #279
clock_tower wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It used to be rational, rather. The classic terrorists of the '70s wanted "a lot of people talking but not a lot of people dead" -- and also wanted to survive the experience. The new breed of terrorism in the '80s and '90s was different from those; the IRA, the PLO, and various state-sponsored terrorists in that period had/have more in common with each other, despite their obvious differences, than any have with al-Q…

> neither Naziism nor Communism believed that success was a sign that Divine Providence was smiling on them. You didn't study your history, comrade! Communist orthodoxy believed in a historical inevitability that overlapped very closely with a sort of man-made Divine Providence. The Nazis had their own set of religious and spiritual motivations, their racial destiny and so on. They differed from Abrahamic religions i…

Also, I'm pretty sure Hitler attributed his survival in the face of the assassination attempt in 1944 to his "divine protection" (at least in the propaganda afterwards).

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#398

Post by gozo »

ArekDymalski wrote: post #169
rquantz wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terrorism is usually a rational act. It is terrible, but it has political goals. This, for instance, may be aimed at ending the European involvement in Syria and their taking in refugees.

It might be not about political goals: http://www.gwern.net/Terrorism%20is%20not%20Effective

I've tried to take that analysis seriously when people have linked it before, but to me it just doesn't seem very relevant to the real world. I'm curious what you mean when you say that it's not about political goals and how that is supported?

Terrorists are by definition extremists. They want to upset the status quo to force people to take sides and create a situation where they feel they, who are righteous, have a better chance of being successful or at least relevant. Whether that is a race war, holy war or revolution. The killing itself isn't particularly relevant until your fighting over land and then normally in form of ethnic cleansing.

The analysis you linked misses a the point of e.g. the terrorist plot in Norway. It's wasn't just about killing people, he deliberately tried to effect politics by killing a generation of people he disagreed with. He also believed that it was part of and going to lead to a larger conflict.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#399

Post by [deleted] »

Fluid_Mechanics wrote: post #118
djfm wrote: post #76

I live in Paris and was spending the night in the middle of the hot zone. I was a few hundred meters from the Bataclan but fortunately the area I was in was spared. I tried to get a Uber but they were unavailable, "State of emergency, please stay home", the app said. I took a city bike home, rode about 10kms and barely saw anyone in the streets all the way home. It was really, really weird. I'm awfully sad that peopl…

If we didn't need to secure their oil by supporting/deposing despots in the region, and didn't want to provide the Israelis with military/political/financial support then we would not be dealing with any of this carnage. Their attempts to fight back will only escalate the situation, and the carnage will continue. Edit: I'm not advocating that we not support Israel. I'm simply stating a hard truth regarding "why they…

[deleted]

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#400

Post by [deleted] »

benihana wrote: post #363
bedhead wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are trying to rationalize with people who are irrational. They don't reconcile. It sucks. It's depressing.

>You are trying to rationalize with people who are irrational. In my opinion, this is the most dangerous statement in this thread. Saying the actions of these people is irrational loses any ability to understand why they're doing what they're doing and how we can stop them. It turns them into a faceless enemy who are doing things because of hate, which is easy and makes my ego feel better, but doesn't really explain…

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