Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say • Hacker News Board

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#191

Post by lfam » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 1:52 AM UTC

jmspring wrote: post #13

The repeated attacks, heavy immigration of refugees...I'm hoping for the best, but I feel like there is a powder keg here. Whether or not it is based in any fact, how this is handled and plays out is a serious concern.

The population of France is about 7.5% Muslim. France has had a close relationship with the Muslim world since the 19th century when they colonized parts of North Africa and the Middle East. Sadly, the position in French society of colonial immigrants and their descendants is not very high. Also sadly, France has had a lot of experience with this sort of violence, both in the colonies and "at home".

If you know the attacks were carried out by Muslims, there's no reason to assume these attacks were carried out by refugees.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#192

Post by janus24 » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 1:53 AM UTC

asasasasasas wrote: post #171

conradk wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, this is not the first time that France has declared a state of emergency. It was declared in 1984 and 2005. And it was declared in Algeria in the 1950s and 1960s.

The OP meant that this is the first time since WWII that France has closed its borders, which is true. For those curious about 2005 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_riots#State_of_eme... Edit: I was wrong, the President said the borders were closed, but then clarified that they weren't.

The borders are not closed, it's just a restoration of border controls.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#193

Post by jules » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 1:53 AM UTC

lazaroclapp wrote: post #183

bedhead wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is only "rational" within an irrational construct, such as extreme religious devotion.

No. It can be rational in the context of anti-colonialism and sovereignist ideology and historical revanchism, as well as many other not at all irrational ideologies. It might or might not be effective, depending on the specific political goals in question. It is not, in general, about religion per se, except in so much as religion is part of group identity (in a similar vein as say, nationalism). But that is not the…

You really think that the sincere belief that you will spend an eternity in heaven and secure a place in heaven for 70 family members of your choosing and earn the love of God has nothing to do with it? It's hard for people who are not religious fundamentalists to understand that some people really believe this with as much certainty as you and I believe that the sun will rise tomorrow. This belief is precisely why so many of these attacks are suicide attacks. Ask yourself why so many suicide bombers? Why blow yourself up when you can make a bomb and then another and another? Mohamed Merah answers this question: "We love death more than the infidel loves life". To these people death is not death. This life is just a test, a test that you can ace by blowing yourself up, death is not the end but the beginning of the real and infinitely long life.

No doubt there are other factors involved, but to deny this key enabling factor which makes suicide terrorism an eminently rational thing to do is laughable and makes you blind to an important and maybe even the most important strategy against religious terrorism: education that sheds doubt on the literal interpretation of holy books. When you have even 1% of doubt that this is what God wants you to do, you may not be so inclined to blow yourself up.

I'm fully aware that this is a very unpopular observation to make, but ask yourself not whether it would be nice if this were false, but whether it is actually true or false. Wishful thinking does not get us anywhere.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#194

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 1:53 AM UTC

noobermin wrote: post #155

RogtamBar wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reasons for its strength have actually less to do with immigration than the continuous state of crisis of the French economy combined with the corruption of the political establishment. The political establishment in France is in thrall to a radical, globalist agenda that seeks to increase its power by performing 'divide and conquer'. A multicultural society has many more fault lines that can be exploited for p…

Offtopic, but while multiculturalism makes certain things difficult (like congress in the US now, agreeing on policy) diversity also helps in other ways (like being able to understand and deal with those who aren't like you and don't agree with you). One example of an extremely sucessful, multicultural society is Singapore. And, be honest, for all of America's faults, it's still a world power and one of the largest e…

[deleted]

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#195

Post by jacquesm » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 1:54 AM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #82

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. I'm sure a bunch of dipshits are already claiming that this is what happens when you allow Muslims into your country, somehow. Gonna wind up hurting a lot more innocent people.

Can we at least wait until people start saying these things before we complain? I'm getting tired of seeing a bunch of comments complaining about other people supposedly making arguments of which I see no trace.

That wait was over more than an hour ago, unfortunately.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#196

Post by yeukhon » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 1:54 AM UTC

yoodenvranx wrote: post #102

rezashirazian wrote: post #77

This is scary. This was a well coordinated attack that usually create a lot of chatter before hand. Unlike lone wolf attacks these are somewhat easier to detect. The French intelligence and counter terrorism units are either not doing their best or these terrorist are getting much better at covering their tracks.

How much "chatter" do you really need to coordinate something like this? If it is a small group of just half a dozen people you should be pretty much invisible if you act a bit clever. Coordination can be done via throw away sim cards and personal meetings so you don't really need to communicate that much.

> Coordination can be done via throw away sim cards and personal meetings so you don't really need to communicate that much.

You forget the fact that the communication channel is always being monitored, but in this sad case, nothing was caught. Someone has already smuggled the weapons in before hand, just like how the bomb was able to made it to the plane early this month. Someone must have been tipped and bought the weapons from possibly local gangs and bam...

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#197

Post by facetube » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 1:54 AM UTC

arcadeparade wrote: post #89

toyg wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Refugees carry little more than their shirts in their travels. Those guns and grenades didn't come with refugees. End of story.

They also carry their religion, genes and culture. And with that comes a clash of civilisations. With open gates: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cb0_1447249820

Are you suggesting that migrants are somehow genetically inferior? Because that'd be, frankly, an insane point of view to have.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#198

Post by fasterthanlime » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 1:55 AM UTC

I've started a translation effort of the 'State of emergency' French laws + some relevant press releases from the government: https://gist.github.com/fasterthanlime/faa2ae629d22f325beb7

Feel free to suggest improvements in the comments and/or request other relevant documents to be translated.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#199

Post by da1 » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 1:55 AM UTC

djfm wrote: post #76

I live in Paris and was spending the night in the middle of the hot zone. I was a few hundred meters from the Bataclan but fortunately the area I was in was spared. I tried to get a Uber but they were unavailable, "State of emergency, please stay home", the app said. I took a city bike home, rode about 10kms and barely saw anyone in the streets all the way home. It was really, really weird. I'm awfully sad that peopl…

> Please stop this pointless killing.

I think by definition this anything but pointless.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#200

Post by stephenhuey » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 1:56 AM UTC

My wife and I were just there for part of our honeymoon and literally flew out hours before, around noon on Friday. Some locals had talked to us about the recent attack some weeks ago and how they didn't want to let such people stop them from living their lives. This day is worse but I feel like the lovely people we talked to were determined, resilient and optimistic. God bless the city with peace.