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Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

nytimes.com

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Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#81

Post by jules »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #45
iMark wrote: post #41

I'm not entirely sure how I would define my guiding motivation in life, but I swear "do no harm" would be part of it. I despair at those who believe otherwise.

I'm not sure if I could keep a motivation like that if, for example, my family was killed by a drone strike.

I would like to believe that even if my family was killed in a drone strike I would not go to a random country and kill civilians. Furthermore, I would like to see data on how many terrorists had families that were killed in drone strikes. My understanding is that the vast majority have other grievances, many of them theological.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#82

Post by mikeash »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #18
jmspring wrote: post #13

The repeated attacks, heavy immigration of refugees...I'm hoping for the best, but I feel like there is a powder keg here. Whether or not it is based in any fact, how this is handled and plays out is a serious concern.

Indeed. I'm sure a bunch of dipshits are already claiming that this is what happens when you allow Muslims into your country, somehow. Gonna wind up hurting a lot more innocent people.

Can we at least wait until people start saying these things before we complain? I'm getting tired of seeing a bunch of comments complaining about other people supposedly making arguments of which I see no trace.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#83

Post by jmspring »

roadbeats wrote: post #59
jmspring wrote: post #13

The repeated attacks, heavy immigration of refugees...I'm hoping for the best, but I feel like there is a powder keg here. Whether or not it is based in any fact, how this is handled and plays out is a serious concern.

How many refugee camps does France have? Let me answer you: 0 Refugees are victims of the war. If they wanted to involve violence, they would not be refugees looking for home. Why to see them as potential terrorists ?

I don't know the views and concerns in France, I've only followed the responses to the Charlie Hedbo shooting and other media incidents in France. That said, the views and conversations with in-laws in Germany, it's interesting hearing what are otherwise inclusive people being concerned about things and not supporting the refugees.

The events are most likely unrelated, but there is a habit to generalize. And escalation of that generalization is what is a concern to me.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#84

Post by RogtamBar »

dragonwriter wrote: post #34
sosborn wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically, the French security system has been revealed as completely ineffective. How can a country possibly prevent these things while still maintaining a free society?

> How can a country possibly prevent these things while still maintaining a free society? You can't even prevent them when not being a free society. Its not like terrorism only occurs in free societies.

This is bullshit and you know this.

There is very little chance of anyone successfully getting up to terrorism if society is

a) riddled with informers b) detaining people without charges is legal c) totalitarian ideology and political supremacy makes the establishment of parallel societies impossible. Border controls make importing terrorists next to impossible.

The former eastern Bloc had no terrorist incidents. Pulling them off would be harder, the state would cover it up, etc. Just like it had practically no mob.

It did have a great many terrorists, mostly in various training camps.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#85

Post by bronson »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #74
user_0001 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should be done? Bomb the hell out of the Syrians? Surely they have suffered enough. Iraq III? Maybe this time.... maybe.... Send the ground troops into Saudi? Quatar? Acknowledging that some of ISIS / Al-Qaeda gripes do have some merit, stop interfering in other countries affairs, stop propping up dictators because they are "our" dictator. Something else? Unfortunately for the Syrians, my money is on bomb the he…

We have to concentrate on stabilizing Syria, Iraq, Yemen, etc., assist the Kurds and other moderate groups against the extremists, and be vigilant within our own borders, yet without sacrificing our liberties. Beyond that, there's not much more we can do.

We tried to stabilize Iraq, now we have ISIL.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#86

Post by slantedview »

user_0001 wrote: post #46
hardcastle wrote: post #25

"Evil thrives when good men do nothing" gotta put a stop to this

What should be done? Bomb the hell out of the Syrians? Surely they have suffered enough. Iraq III? Maybe this time.... maybe.... Send the ground troops into Saudi? Quatar? Acknowledging that some of ISIS / Al-Qaeda gripes do have some merit, stop interfering in other countries affairs, stop propping up dictators because they are "our" dictator. Something else? Unfortunately for the Syrians, my money is on bomb the he…

Our bombs and bullets are what led to the creation of ISIS. Surely the solution is not more bombs and bullets.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#87

Post by cm2187 »

AlexB138 wrote: post #72
cm2187 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France cannot really control the wave of migrants anyway. But it is unlikely that the terrorists are one of these migrants. My guess is that they were French nationals/residents.

>My guess is that they were French nationals/residents. Based on what? I'm pretty uninformed here, and it seems like a lot of people are bringing up refugees. Curious why you think the opposite.

We do not know yet the identities of the terrorists, so only a guess based on the previous three years of attacks in France.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#88

Post by roadbeats »

saryant wrote: post #64
roadbeats wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many refugee camps does France have? Let me answer you: 0 Refugees are victims of the war. If they wanted to involve violence, they would not be refugees looking for home. Why to see them as potential terrorists ?

That's not true, France does have refugee camps.

I volunteered two different refugee camp constructions in Syrian border and I know the difference between a refugee camp and a homeless camp clearly.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#89

Post by arcadeparade »

toyg wrote: post #54
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a major problem is that even they can't know who among them - in the big groups of refugees making the journey - is an isis member or supporter, and even if they're not, there's no telling who is going to radicalise in the future. The attacks earlier this year in paris weren't done by someone that came from that area, iirc.

Refugees carry little more than their shirts in their travels. Those guns and grenades didn't come with refugees. End of story.

They also carry their religion, genes and culture. And with that comes a clash of civilisations. With open gates: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cb0_1447249820

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#90

Post by blisterpeanuts »

fein wrote: post #60
sosborn wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically, the French security system has been revealed as completely ineffective. How can a country possibly prevent these things while still maintaining a free society?

Arm your citizens. Edit: Seems HN would rather die on their knees. Shame.

This is not such a bad idea. Unfortunately, it won't help in controlled places like a concert hall (as tonight) where patrons will be scanned at the door. If not today, undoubtedly they'll start doing a lot more of this.

On the street and in restaurants, that's another story.

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