Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 187 posts

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#101

Post by sanderjd »

bko wrote: post #90
manish_gill wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be willing to extend the same logic to the medical profession? What about law? Or perhaps architecture? Would you let a 12 week bootcamp graduate design your home? Or really, any other type of engineer. After all, the argument about "theory" differing from "real world practice" and becoming "good enough" can be made for those as well. You don't need to know about how germs work in order to treat a cold. You…

> Medical Yes. There is plenty of work that can be done by a nurse that doesn't need to be done by a doctor. It seems silly that someone gets sent to school for over a decade to talk to me about whether I can take a drug to bring back the spark in my relationship. > Law Yes. There are plenty of routine legal procedures that should be allowed to be performed by someone that doesn't have to go through the costly proces…

Becoming a nurse or paralegal requires far more certification than software development. It's actually quite amazing how much of an outlier software is in the realm of professional qualification.

Accounting is perhaps a more interesting corollary because it doesn't have the built-in awe and long history of respect as the medical and legal professions: perhaps we should have 12-week tax accounting bootcamps! I'm being a bit tongue-in-cheek, but there are real benefits on both sides of this argument: there are real quality of work and quality of employment (salary, respect, etc.) advantages to professional certification enforcement, but it is difficult to imagine the pace at which the technology sector is growing if employment were controlled by certification.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#102

Post by mhink »

confuseddotcom wrote: post #100
bphogan wrote: post #99

edits to correct typos made on my phone. I am skeptical of developer bootcamps because they often aren't open enrollment. You generally have to have the aptitude and background to get through their admissions process and interview. That weeds out some people right away. They are right to have this admissions process, because if you let everyone in, lots of people won't make it, and then the promise of good paying job…

> That weeds on some people right away. > people who have grown up around how to learn Neither of these phrases makes any sense.

Oh, come on. It's clear enough from context what the parent means: "that weeds out some people right away".

The latter phrase could be rephrased as "people who have grown up in an environment which taught them how to learn".

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#103

Post by Hortinstein »

el_benhameen wrote: post #82
Hortinstein wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

meanwhile I am paying ~$8,000 for a full computer science masters from GA Tech (OMSCS). Different class of education, but I feel like I am getting a better deal.

Slightly off-topic, but do most members of your cohort have academic backgrounds in CS? I'm interested in the program, but have a non-CS bachelor's plus work experience in development, and I'm not sure if it's worth my time to apply.

I have heard of people from all backgrounds getting into the program.

Totally worth your time. Many questions like this on https://www.reddit.com/r/omscs .

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#105

Post by walshemj »

laveur wrote: post #18

I am skeptical of "Developer Boot Camps". I think they over promise people that they will be skilled developers when they are done. If you go in with a degree in Computer Science or something that teaches you how to program properly sure you will probably be able to get a job. But the idea to take someone that has never been a programmer and make them suitable for a job is laughable to me. It does a disservice to eve…

CS degrees teach CS not how to program properly you sort of expected to either know it all ready or teach your self as you go along.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#106

Post by walshemj »

laveur wrote: post #18

I am skeptical of "Developer Boot Camps". I think they over promise people that they will be skilled developers when they are done. If you go in with a degree in Computer Science or something that teaches you how to program properly sure you will probably be able to get a job. But the idea to take someone that has never been a programmer and make them suitable for a job is laughable to me. It does a disservice to eve…

And the cost $13.5K for 12 weeks (a single term) is about what it costs for a year at Oxbridge £9k

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#107

Post by walshemj »

bduerst wrote: post #86
manish_gill wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A developer and a computer scientist are two different things. No, they are not. A good developer is someone who, by virtue of the fact that he or she has to write software whose theoretical underpinnings are rooted in CS, must be good in CS as well. It's ok if you're not a CS person, but stop generalising and saying no dev has to be. > There are awesome developers who are terrible computer scientists. They can bui…

The difference is semantics - one is a software engineer and the other a software programmer. You don't need to know classical mechanic physics as a construction worker to build a structure, but you do need to know it as the architect designing it. The bigger the structure, the more important.

Not so much the architect the Consulting Engineer ( a proper one with their PE CE status) has to.

And in fact the basics of structures is taught to Technicians as well.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#108

Post by cbr »

walshemj wrote: post #93
skizm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I interviewed at Google. Didn't get the gig, but while I was in the office, it did seem like their engineers were mostly 30+ somethings. I didn't see a lot engineers there that looked like fresh grads. I know more than half the engineers working there interview two or more times before getting an offer. Google, and most larger tech companies, optimize their hiring process to aggressively deny candidates if they aren'…

Why is that is there any verifiable statistics to back this up? There is very little statutory protection for employees in the USA so the actual cost of firing some one isn't that high.

> the actual cost of firing some one isn't that high

The legal cost is low, but the social cost of a workplace where people often get fired is high.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#109

Post by cbr »

walshemj wrote: post #93
skizm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I interviewed at Google. Didn't get the gig, but while I was in the office, it did seem like their engineers were mostly 30+ somethings. I didn't see a lot engineers there that looked like fresh grads. I know more than half the engineers working there interview two or more times before getting an offer. Google, and most larger tech companies, optimize their hiring process to aggressively deny candidates if they aren'…

Why is that is there any verifiable statistics to back this up? There is very little statutory protection for employees in the USA so the actual cost of firing some one isn't that high.

> the actual cost of firing some one isn't that high

The legal cost is low, but the social cost of a workplace where people often get fired is high.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#110

Post by jxramos »

whiteboarder wrote: post #28
laveur wrote: post #18

I am skeptical of "Developer Boot Camps". I think they over promise people that they will be skilled developers when they are done. If you go in with a degree in Computer Science or something that teaches you how to program properly sure you will probably be able to get a job. But the idea to take someone that has never been a programmer and make them suitable for a job is laughable to me. It does a disservice to eve…

And yet the Developer Boot Camps work. Just look at the job statistics for anyone of the top ones, like Hack Reactor, Flatiron School, ect. They graduate people who get 80-100k salary jobs, within 6 months of graduating. People go to these bootcamps for the singular goal of getting a high paying job, and these programs are wildly successful at achieving this goal.

I'd also like to add to the conversation that these bootcamp individuals don't exist in a vacuum. They will gain a decent network and hopefully will be already tied into an existing network. I'm a developer who has a friend who is going through the HackReactor bootcamp process and will begin this January. He's still preparing for the training by doing self study which I mentor him on over lunch hours. A focused bootcamp paired with a solid mentor should definitely produce a developer able to deliver JR tasks. Because afterall once a person lands a job they will surely continue to learn more and more, from their tasks, their colleagues, and mentors. I say let the bootcamps thrive.
Post reply on HN