Live data from Hacker News

Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

bloomberg.com

91–100 of 187 posts

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#91

Can anyone in the app development world speak to whether or not there actually is a shortage of Android devs? Or is Google just trying to spark innovation by getting more engineers into the Android ecosystem?

Have been building mobile apps for a living for a few years - which I suppose makes me a vet in a relatively new field, so maybe I can shed some light: Demand for mobile developers in general is off the charts, and still climbing. It's kind of absurd, really - the going rate for mobile devs has increased 200-300% over the past 3 years amongst colleagues I know, which I think is almost entirely attributable to the dem…

What resources do you recommend for a Java dev if courses and building sample apps aren't enough?

Is there an Effective Android or Android the Good Parts type of book?

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#92
post #18

I am skeptical of "Developer Boot Camps". I think they over promise people that they will be skilled developers when they are done. If you go in with a degree in Computer Science or something that teaches you how to program properly sure you will probably be able to get a job. But the idea to take someone that has never been a programmer and make them suitable for a job is laughable to me. It does a disservice to eve…

This attitude, that I see frequently on HN, isn't very helpful. I taught myself to write code in a little under three months and immediately got a job as a Jr. Dev. I knew nothing about data structures or algorithms but I could write a Ruby program. Now, three years later, I am taking online classes to learn about those issues. The more advanced I got, the more I needed those "basics." Looking back at myself at 18, t…

I think it's akin to how a couple of days of training could prepare someone to work at one of those oil change places but it won't make him or her into a car mechanic.

These bootcamps can teach people the basics of programming and if they have the interest and aptitude, they can grow into mature, experienced developers.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#93
post #14
post #7

What does Google do with developers who are 40 or 50? What does age diversity look like at Google for engineering staff? Sooner or later this issue is going to come to a head when all the 20-30-something year old Javascript hackers grow older...

I interviewed at Google. Didn't get the gig, but while I was in the office, it did seem like their engineers were mostly 30+ somethings. I didn't see a lot engineers there that looked like fresh grads. I know more than half the engineers working there interview two or more times before getting an offer. Google, and most larger tech companies, optimize their hiring process to aggressively deny candidates if they aren'…

Why is that is there any verifiable statistics to back this up?

There is very little statutory protection for employees in the USA so the actual cost of firing some one isn't that high.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#94
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Being a software developer in the modern world... has little to do with computer science." Is a categorical falsehood that has cost me alot of time and money. There is not one top tier technology company software team that you can get on without having a strong grasp of at least the basic fundamentals of CS (namely data structures, algorithms, and some college level math.) You will ALWAYS get passed on if you only f…

What's interesting to me is that every time this argument comes up, the argument of the party stating that fundamental CS skills are not required generally revolves around the work , and the argument of the opposing party generally revolves around the interview . >> not one team... you can get on >> passed on Is the problem that you can't join the team without fundamental skills, or that you can't do the work ?

>Is the problem that you can't join the team without fundamental skills, or that you can't do the work?

In some of the easier cases, a person who is only a bootcamp graduate will be able to do the work. In other cases, they absolutely won't. The latter will be those that require more knowledge of at least some CS theory (parts of it), algorithms, data structures, OS fundamentals (and particularly the interactions between the programs you are building and the OS, i.e. system calls, I/O to/from peripherals, data representation format and conversion issues, etc.), troubleshooting (and I don't count looking up issues on StackOverflow as troubleshooting), etc.

https://mobile.twitter.com/vasudevram/status/656512523840147...

https://mobile.twitter.com/garybernhardt/status/656512550570...

For example, I've come across both devs and sysadmins who didn't know that a binary (Unix term) / EXE (Windows term) compiled for one hardware/OS platform will not run on another hardware/OS platform (with maybe some exceptions). - due to the different hardware instruction set and OS system calls.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#95
This is great. There are several such bootcamps around, some of which have had great success with getting people set up in Jr. Positions. With a big Corp like Google behind the idea, it certainly sets a precedence -- and in a way, some leverage for people interested in the idea.

Personally I'm currently 20 years old, and I'm studying and working at the moment. I intend to self-learn, to enable to to get a Jr dev position as well. Even with a 20% chance of success, the risk is worth it considering the off-trade of debt and 3 years for a bachelor.

Does anyone have any input on whether it's viable or not? What would you require from someone self taught, to hire them?

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#96
post #17

Isn't it more important to focus on the concepts like discrete math, data structures/algorithm, OS, etc? Is it really beneficial for there to be a surplus of programmers who only learned how to use libraries?

There are engineers that work on the highest level of machinery - NASA, F1, robotics, etc - and there are mechanics who maintain and service the vast fleet of personal automobiles in the world. The Jiffy Lube mechanics may not be able to map out the physics of combustion and motion, but they can fix your broken suspension arm. An advanced degree is not necessary for all forms of trade.

A lot of F1 guys will have BSc's - there is even a University in the UK that runs Degree programs for the f1 market

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#97
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop it. I think it's really an uncomfortable feeling for plenty of us that someone can learn to program in a few months. It makes plenty of people in the industry free inadequate and I see this argument of yours repeated over and over. It doesn't stand. A developer and a computer scientist are two different things. There are awesome developers who are terrible computer scientists. They can build a great website/smal…

No, what makes us uncomfortable is having to come back and maintain the code written by some of these boot camp graduates after the fact.

It should be noted that many developers with CS degrees write spaghetti code and make poor architectural decisions.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#98
post #18

I am skeptical of "Developer Boot Camps". I think they over promise people that they will be skilled developers when they are done. If you go in with a degree in Computer Science or something that teaches you how to program properly sure you will probably be able to get a job. But the idea to take someone that has never been a programmer and make them suitable for a job is laughable to me. It does a disservice to eve…

Stop it. I think it's really an uncomfortable feeling for plenty of us that someone can learn to program in a few months. It makes plenty of people in the industry free inadequate and I see this argument of yours repeated over and over. It doesn't stand. A developer and a computer scientist are two different things. There are awesome developers who are terrible computer scientists. They can build a great website/smal…

Can confirm. I work at a company in the Google ballpark, am a former mathematician, and would probably make a good CS'ist, but my old website was copy-pasted HTML from another professor's.

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#99
edits to correct typos made on my phone.

I am skeptical of developer bootcamps because they often aren't open enrollment. You generally have to have the aptitude and background to get through their admissions process and interview. That weeds out some people right away.

They are right to have this admissions process, because if you let everyone in, lots of people won't make it, and then the promise of good paying jobs is much more hard to advertise.

Let's not forget that it does favor a certain type of people over others; namely people who have grown up in an environment that teaches them how to learn. Most people on HN know how to learn on their own and see value in bootcamps because they feel that candidates from bootcamps can learn the material easily.

But folks, that's not everyone.

A lot of people don't like school. They aren't good at it, or they had bad experiences, etc. And a lot of people transitioning into software development have been trained for many years to do what they were told, so they have to develop those critical thinking skills.

I think these people have a harder time making it through the application processes for some of these camps. And that's a shame.

I would be 100% behind an immersive bootcamp experience that had an open enrollment process. I work at a school that has that right now, and we do have lots of people who don't make it very far. But we have many more that go from minimum wage to doing very, very well for themselves and their families.

If I had those students for 12 weeks straight where they could learn and apply through immersion, oh man, the things we could do together!

Re: Google Launches a Developer Boot Camp, Promising Jobs for Graduates

#100
post #99

edits to correct typos made on my phone. I am skeptical of developer bootcamps because they often aren't open enrollment. You generally have to have the aptitude and background to get through their admissions process and interview. That weeds out some people right away. They are right to have this admissions process, because if you let everyone in, lots of people won't make it, and then the promise of good paying job…

> That weeds on some people right away.

> people who have grown up around how to learn

Neither of these phrases makes any sense.

Post reply on HN