Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#231

Post by sinxoveretothex » Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 7:28 AM UTC

vonklaus wrote: post #183

threeseed wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A reliability issue sucks, but much less so if it can be resolved pleasantly and quickly Much less so ? Nonsense. If a car is out of warranty and it continues to suffer from systemic reliability issues it is irrelevant how good the service is. You will still be significantly out of pocket and unable to sell the car on the used market.

Model S went into production in 2012[0] and has an infinite mile warranty for 8 years. These cars won't be out of warranty until 2020. It has no limit on owners and applies retroactively. Even tesla roadsters won't be out of warranty yet as they were produced in 08'. Given that there are about 2400 of them, most drivers won't pay out of pocket with a tesla for half a decade. The ones who bought roadsters are risk tol…

For whatever it's worth, there are owners on the Tesla motors subreddit who say they have issues and that Tesla won't fix because they are out of warranty.

One guy was over the mileage too (I don't remember the amount but it was absurdly high to be honest).

So maybe the limitations are different from place to place?

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#232

Post by jarek » Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 8:04 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #155

macNchz wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say your expectations around car ownership are significantly out of line with a typical car buyer or someone who may be reading Consumer Reports. I don't think most people buying cars have any real expectation about communication or any relationship with the manufacturer of their car, and having the drivetrain replaced twice would seemingly be a dealbreaker in terms of brand loyalty for a great many car owners. O…

I don't see the problem. Early adopters are shaking out the bugs in the Model S and the Model X. If Tesla adopts the Uber model, you're never going to care if the car has problems, it'll be Tesla's problems. All of this hand wringing assumes car ownership is going to continue as it has in the past. I'd say the tea leaves are showing something different with self driving cars advancing as quickly as they are. Tesla Mo…

If the car drives itself and you rent a trip rather than buy and own a specific vehicle, why would most people care to pay a premium for a Tesla trip rather than just getting a Nissan Leaf With Google or Hyundai e10 With Uber or a self-car2go or...?

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#233

Post by arethuza » Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 8:25 AM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #201

martin_bech wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Tesla Model S owner, and former BMW owner, I can say without a doubt that the german build quality (BMW, Mercedes, Audi) is superior to Tesla. However driving a Tesla feels like having the first iPhone, and everyone else is driving around in Nokias. The Mercedes S class does however come close, in my opinion.

I've never known a VW owner that has not had electrical problems within the first 5 years of ownership. Just my own data point.

Well, my last 4 cars have all been VW Group (Passat, Golf, Golf, ŠKODA Yeti) and I've never had any problems with them - mind you I kept them for 3 years so they were all within warranty.

Worst electrical problems we've had was with a Toyota my wife had - problems with the sunroof caused the instrument panel to fail!

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#234

Post by mattlutze » Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 8:29 AM UTC

zeckalpha wrote: post #197

somebehemoth wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. However, your situation is a luxury afforded to you (I assume) by living in a place with proper public transit. A whole lot of people don't have that luxury.

Simply trading some luxuries for others. Owning a car is a luxury.

Only for people that live in high-population-density areas with meaningful public transit. Otherwise it's a practical necessity, unless having a job is a luxury as well.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#235

Post by mattlutze » Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 8:35 AM UTC

toddmorey wrote: post #100

pkorzeniewski wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't take the owner satisfaction ratings too seriously, people who buy Tesla cars are mostly rich enthusiasts of new technologies and will quietly deal with a lot of issues before starting to criticize the car. If someone doesn't care about the electric engine, there's really no reason to buy a Tesla - for the same price you can get a much more luxurious german car with proven technology. It's similar to people…

I hear you, but it's important to note that it appears that Mercedes (a storied German luxury car with proven technology) currently has an even a lower reliability rating. That makes me think it's likely more than just company age and experience, I think there is something about a company's risk tolerance and how it relates to their eagerness to implement new tech. As the article states, the blander "appliance-like"…

Sounds like the crux is that reliability means different things to different perspectives.

Those Mercs (or BMWs, or Audis) are targeted as lease-first cars, if you go larger than their compact sedans (C-Klasse, 3er, A4). The cars are built to swaddle you in luxury for 24-36 months or 30,000 miles, get a refurb, then get resold at 80% original price as Certified Pre-Owned vehicles. Then they need to start having small issues to maintain a relatively predictable revenue stream for the the dealership mechanic networks.

The CR notes are on the money -- really, the more tech in a car, the more likely you are to have issues. It's a big, heavy, complex dynamic system getting blasted with debris and weather. It's sometimes surprising just how durable some of the high-tech wizardry in modern autos is.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#236

Post by saiya-jin » Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 9:04 AM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #201

martin_bech wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Tesla Model S owner, and former BMW owner, I can say without a doubt that the german build quality (BMW, Mercedes, Audi) is superior to Tesla. However driving a Tesla feels like having the first iPhone, and everyone else is driving around in Nokias. The Mercedes S class does however come close, in my opinion.

I've never known a VW owner that has not had electrical problems within the first 5 years of ownership. Just my own data point.

neither BMW nor Mercs are in VW group (and god thanx for that!). Audi is, and generally, within those 3 brands, is considered as the cheapest, least luxurious, least fun alternative (R8 is an exception :))

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#237

Post by saiya-jin » Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 9:24 AM UTC

oldmanjay wrote: post #108

avn2109 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "The control panel will be all big screens and apps." Noooo - tactile feedback is so important in vehicle subsystem control! [0] Please do not take away my knobs and dials. [0] http://www.ecnmag.com/article/2014/01/keeping-feel-automotiv...

Not to ruin your day, but they're taking away your knobs, dials, and control of the vehicle.

This is actually ruining my day and night, idiotic move to impress... who actually? Soccer mums? Drivers need to focus on the road constantly, if i look away, there can be atomic blast right ahead of me and I will not notice it properly. Even a glance for 1-2s can have grave consequences in heavy traffic.

Knobs are excellent thing. Touch screen is good only for passengers. In my knob-full car i can adjust most things without a glance away from road. Good luck hunting some effin' ipad screen

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#238

Post by saiya-jin » Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 9:38 AM UTC

vasilipupkin wrote: post #195

Lightbody wrote: post #20

I got my P85 in July 2013 and I can absolutely confirm what Consumer Reports is saying. My car has (and continues) to have all sorts of small fit-and-finish issues. While I've never had a drivetrain issue or any major problem, I have had some wireless and door handle issues that required as new Master Control Unit. Sadly, the work replacing the MCU introduced even more squeaks in the dashboard area :( That all said:…

I don't get it. I have so little free time, the last thing I want to deal with is getting my car fixed. I have a Toyota Camry Hybrid and I have never had to do anything with it whatsoever, other than drive it whenever I want to

You are comparing rational approach to biased enthusiasts/early adopters one. Tesla has little to no appeal for common consumers, it just doesn't deliver much for ridiculous price, with many shortcomings.

But it's a new gadget, it shows where future is heading to. it's not there yet for most people.

Once it will deliver something for masses (ie 3x reach, maybe half-2/3 the power, half the price, no constant baby technology issues), people will be all over it. But in those 10-15 years, other manufacturers will have similar offers.

They are not standing idly - all have (coming) hybrid cars, many able to run for limited time in battery-only mode. Once market is big enough, they adapt their technologies to electric-only.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#239

Post by the_mitsuhiko » Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 10:23 AM UTC

tempestn wrote: post #219

anxman wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do live very close to a service center and that certainly is a factor in my ownership. If I didn't live near an SC, I would opt for Ranger service.

Unfortunately it looks like that's no longer an option: http://my.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/ranger-service-plan-n...

Ranger service still exists but not in all locations.

Re: Tesla shares dive after Consumer Reports yanks recommendation for Model S

#240

Post by makomk » Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 10:33 AM UTC

vonklaus wrote: post #183

threeseed wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A reliability issue sucks, but much less so if it can be resolved pleasantly and quickly Much less so ? Nonsense. If a car is out of warranty and it continues to suffer from systemic reliability issues it is irrelevant how good the service is. You will still be significantly out of pocket and unable to sell the car on the used market.

Model S went into production in 2012[0] and has an infinite mile warranty for 8 years. These cars won't be out of warranty until 2020. It has no limit on owners and applies retroactively. Even tesla roadsters won't be out of warranty yet as they were produced in 08'. Given that there are about 2400 of them, most drivers won't pay out of pocket with a tesla for half a decade. The ones who bought roadsters are risk tol…

The Model S infinite mile warranty is only for the drivetrain and battery. All the other parts that people have been having problems with - the doors and door handles, the sunroof, etc - have a 4-year, 50000 mile warranty. (That may seem backwards, but yes, the door handle warranty really is limited-mileage whilst the drivetrain one is unlimited.)