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Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

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Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#201

Post by fapjacks »

ryguytilidie wrote: post #142
supercanuck wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are using your experience at two of of the best technology companies in the world to trash the author's criticism of the recruiting in the "IT" industry. Your comment was very tone deaf.

"You do realize that there is an entire IT Industry outside of Facebook and Google?" Was there a single fiber in your being that believed I did not...? I cannot imagine a human brain believing this is a useful post for even a single second. Yet, here you are defending it... "You are using your experience at two of of the best technology companies in the world to trash the author's criticism of the recruiting in the "…

You know what's funny? You are essentially confirming everything the OP has said.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#202

Post by pluma »

rb2k_ wrote: post #136
ascorbic wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you in the UK? If so, I'm seriously surprised this doesn't ring true. To me it exactly matches my experience both as a contractor and as an employer. As to who is being exploited here, it's the whole IT industry. They are rent-seekers, pure and simple, and they leech off our industry. They may not be sending children down mines, but that doesn't diminish the fact they are terrible companies and terrible people.

I think that might be the main difference. I worked in Germany and in the US. The only time that recruiters got a tad annoying was when I was working in Germany and got 2-3 UK agencies. By far not as bad as the post makes it seem, but some slightly annoying things such as calling me on a Sunday evening, trying to give me prep speeches and overusing my name, script reading, trying to not tell me the client name, mispr…

When I was a freelancer in Germany (i.e. up to last year) most "recruiters" were scum. I can't speak about the ones that focus on permanent positions but nearly all of the "Projektvermittler" (i.e. glorified temp agencies) were trying to guilt me into lowering my rates for them (because they'd charge the client 2-3x on top of that), tried to get me to sign NCAs far beyond the scope of the project (which is legally unenforceable but backed up with serious threats that would make anyone think twice) and were about as dishonest and intransparent about the entire process as humanly possible.

Oh, and of course they would keep bombarding me with Java/XML projects just because my CV (which they doctored and redacted before sending it to the client) mentioned that I had once worked on a Java project (but specialised in something entirely different since).

The one project I actually followed through on turned out to be a total disaster. Other than that, all my work had been directly for clients without a third party -- and that worked out far better.

If you're an inexperienced solo freelancer and want to work for big corporations, sure, recruiters are the way to go. Other than that, IMO you're nearly always better off skipping the middle man and taking the entrepreneurial risk (which is fairly manageable if you don't allow the client to build up several months worth of outstanding payments).

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#203

Post by flogic »

manishsharan wrote: post #109

Spammy tech recruiters are bad but corrupt recruiters and hiring practices are much worse" I live in Canada and I am amazed at the amount of corruption/nepotism I see in IT hiring for government IT jobs. They will put out job requirements for senior java dev or web developer and you are supposed to fill out a matrix of required skill. In those supposedly mandatory skills/experiences, they will put in some weird shit…

I work for a large mega corp and we do this all the time. It's because we have a contractor who we want to convert into a real employee. You can't just say "This person has been working with us for a couple of years. Can we make them a real employee so we can keep them and they get benefits?". There is a whole process advertising the position internally and externally even though you already have someone.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#205

Post by acveilleux »

vkjv wrote: post #58
euphemize wrote: post #8

At the end: To employers – ask your staff to help find new hires. Offer a bounty – enough to get their attention, say a fortnight’s salary. It’s a lot less than Shithead would cost. And their incentives are all positive: no-one will hire an idiot if they have to work alongside them and new staff with social ties to your team are far more likely to stay. You’ll be amazed how effective this can be. There are limits to…

Agreed. You need to be careful with exactly how much the bounty is. Too low and people won't bother. Too high and people will recommend anyone they know. I find recommendations for peers are almost always high quality simply because people want to work with good people.

Bounty payout can also be phased. My current employer does half upfront and half once the hire has been with us for 6 months (i.e.: trial period). The bonus are small but not inconsequential (think a nice vacation or down payment on a Camry...) This has been pretty successful.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#206

Post by jarek »

ryandrake wrote: post #77

I don't get all the annoyance at recruiters. I don't mind recruiters reaching out to me at all. If you don't want their help, ignore their E-mails. If the opportunity looks interesting you reply, if not, don't. Here's an entire profession that exists to help get you a job (and to help employers find talent). Like every profession in the world, there are going to be a few jerks--just ignore them. When times are good a…

s/their E-mails/when they call three days in a row and don't take not picking up and not responding to voicemail or e-mail for a hint/

London, this week

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#207

Post by pluma »

michaelt wrote: post #119
ascorbic wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you in the UK? If so, I'm seriously surprised this doesn't ring true. To me it exactly matches my experience both as a contractor and as an employer. As to who is being exploited here, it's the whole IT industry. They are rent-seekers, pure and simple, and they leech off our industry. They may not be sending children down mines, but that doesn't diminish the fact they are terrible companies and terrible people.

They are rent-seekers, pure and simple, and they leech off our industry. I'm no fan of recruiters, but nothing stops you applying to the company directly, and nothing stops the company posting their own job ads.

Actually if the company hired a recruiter there may indeed be reasons you can't apply directly and they can't post job ads themselves. I've seen companies make the mistake of accepting absurd NCAs giving recruiting agencies a quasi-exclusive right to applicants. It's not universally common but depending on the kind of contract you enter (and for some of them it's possible to do so informally just by giving them the go-ahead via e-mail) you can tie your hands.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#208

Post by teh_klev »

Brakenshire wrote: post #187
pjc50 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it sticks out because, in the UK, we're not used to people just lying directly to our faces. And in the recruitment business it seems to happen a lot. (Omission, elision and euphemism is the British way!)

As an aside, is it not fraudulent to lie in this way? For instance, altering resumes without permission, or promising a perk and a salary which the recruiter does not know exist or apply.

It probably is and there's all sorts of Data Protection rules being broken (that's even if they've registered with the Data Protection Registrar). But it's a mammoth and futile task to report possible violations and by the time it's looked into said recruiter has folded and started some other scam. I've tried this and failed miserably.

Fortunately I've not had to look for a job since 2003, happy where I am mostly, so my old CV's are probably long gone in disk crashes, failed backups or other purges. I've not been contacted by a recruiter for ~6 years now.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#209

Post by cookiecaper »

protonfish wrote: post #4

And yet they are our only weapon against business owners who are just as clueless but lack the incentive to pay a competitive wage. When it comes to salary negotiation, it's nice to have Shithead in your corner.

Have you ever met a recruiter who actually does this? In my experience, recruiters are about matching companies and people for interviews, and the handoff occurs there. I've never heard of someone having the recruiter negotiate on their behalf.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#210

Post by cookiecaper »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #153

I don't understand. If recruiters are leeches, why do employers work with them ? perhaps, it's because they provide a service, no?

Because everyone is really bad at recruitment. Companies hire recruiters because they think it'll help dampen the badness of their own recruiting abilities, but really it just makes it harder, as recruiters scare away decent candidates.
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