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Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

mocko.org.uk

41–50 of 335 posts

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#41
I recently moved jobs. Since I work in a fairly niche field, made plenty of good friends at my old workplace, and the company was looking to add to my old team while I was still there, I've had the pleasure of seeing several sides of a hugely inefficient job search.

First, there is the Chinese whispers from within the company. They don't seem keen on finding candidates directly, which in this field is as easy as it gets, so off they go to the recruitment agency. My (now former) boss writes a job spec, this goes to HR (who aren't familiar with any of the technical details) and HR add some company blurb and send it on to a recruiter, but not before crippling the job spec by slapping on a below-market salary that nobody competent will accept to try and save some cash.

The recruiters think they have plenty of candidates who will take the salary, but the candidates simply aren't good enough or don't have the right experience. The recruiters have no way of telling this, so they keep telling the company that there are plenty of great candidates and to keep interviewing.

From the applicant side, several friends of mine who are generally looking to move to a new job had this role aggressively pitched to them by a recruiter. Most of them would be brilliant for this job. What my friends really need is a ten minute phone call with my old boss to see if it's a potential fit before starting any formal interview process. I'd have been happy to put them in touch directly at an earlier stage, but there has now been contact through a recruiter and I don't want to meddle behind the scenes.

None of my friends ended up going for the job since the recruiters were telling them confusing things, and all got better offers than the advertised range elsewhere. The company have unsuccessfully interviewed a few candidates that the recruiters have pushed on them, the team has been desperate for someone new for months (and they're crucial to the company's success) and people like my old boss have no idea and little way of knowing how close they are to finding the right people.

And yes, the stereotype of the shiny-suited young "failed salesman" recruiter is unfortunately true in my experience.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#43
post #17

This is mostly an angry rant, pretty amusing to me how upset the author actually becomes at times, I think its quite harsh. I did like this idea towards the end of it: "To employers – ask your staff to help find new hires. Offer a bounty – enough to get their attention, say a fortnight’s salary. It’s a lot less than [a recruiter] would cost. And their incentives are all positive: no-one will hire an idiot if they hav…

This is completely common in America. Is the London job market scene just messed up?

I took a job abroad after coming from the U.S., and updated my LinkedIn accordingly. Soon after, the spam shot up through the roof. All of the same, non-descript, no-details contacts the author describes. It's been striking.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#44
As a manager I've had a recruiter basically say "That's a nice development department you have there, shame if something were to happen to it." As he described that by signing a contract with him and keeping "active" by hiring his candidates a couple of times a year, he would not solicit the developers at my company.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#45
post #34

I will admit I did not make it through this entire article, but it really did not ring true to me at all--just sounded like an unsupported, hostile, angry rant. >> “Fucked if we care” think the recruiters, “now grovel and be exploited”. ... >> You’re meat to them, a resource to be packaged and sold and exploited. Who's being exploited here? I think he's implying the programmers, but as someone who left academia for i…

I was about to say the same until I saw that it got very funny about half of the way through.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#46

And yet they are our only weapon against business owners who are just as clueless but lack the incentive to pay a competitive wage. When it comes to salary negotiation, it's nice to have Shithead in your corner.

They are more likely to negotiate against you than for you. They will tell you the company is offering less than what they actually are, and they will tell the company that you are asking for more than you actually are. Then, if it's at all close, they don't have to actually negotiate, they can find the middle on their own and both of you are happy with the outcome because you didn't know the original set-point.

Yes - you might assume 'well, they get a percentage of what I get so our interests are aligned'. Sure, they do, but their downside if they don't place you is that they get a percentage of nothing, whereas their downside if they place you for less than your value is they get a percentage of a lot of money instead of a percentage of a load of money. Also, they are hoping to work with the hiring company again, whereas they will likely never have to speak to you after you're hired, so who are they going to do a favor for?

So no, your interests really aren't aligned, and they will screw candidates on salary negotiation, take the slight hit on commission, and then make it up in volume.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#47
post #34

I will admit I did not make it through this entire article, but it really did not ring true to me at all--just sounded like an unsupported, hostile, angry rant. >> “Fucked if we care” think the recruiters, “now grovel and be exploited”. ... >> You’re meat to them, a resource to be packaged and sold and exploited. Who's being exploited here? I think he's implying the programmers, but as someone who left academia for i…

Are you in the UK? If so, I'm seriously surprised this doesn't ring true. To me it exactly matches my experience both as a contractor and as an employer. As to who is being exploited here, it's the whole IT industry. They are rent-seekers, pure and simple, and they leech off our industry. They may not be sending children down mines, but that doesn't diminish the fact they are terrible companies and terrible people.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#48
post #34

I will admit I did not make it through this entire article, but it really did not ring true to me at all--just sounded like an unsupported, hostile, angry rant. >> “Fucked if we care” think the recruiters, “now grovel and be exploited”. ... >> You’re meat to them, a resource to be packaged and sold and exploited. Who's being exploited here? I think he's implying the programmers, but as someone who left academia for i…

Maybe things are different in the UK, but in Canada I've never had to rely on a recruiter to find good work. I've interacted with them a few times and yes, it wasn't pleasant, but they hardly had the market cornered. My impression has been that those who rely on recruiters are unable to navigate the job market well themselves. It's not a forced reliance.

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#49
post #34

I will admit I did not make it through this entire article, but it really did not ring true to me at all--just sounded like an unsupported, hostile, angry rant. >> “Fucked if we care” think the recruiters, “now grovel and be exploited”. ... >> You’re meat to them, a resource to be packaged and sold and exploited. Who's being exploited here? I think he's implying the programmers, but as someone who left academia for i…

> If a comment as irate, mean-spirited, and unsubstantiated as this blog post appeared in HN, it would get down-voted into oblivion.

Yet this article instead of getting flagged into oblivion got upvoted to #1 as of now. Could that be that HN readers' experience with recruiters mirrors the author's experience?

Re: Don’t Feed the Beast – The Great Tech Recruiter Infestation

#50
post #3

I'm looking for work right now (need an embedded engineer in the UK?) and some job boards have a tickbox "[]agency" or "[]direct employer" and most of the direct employer ones are also recruiters. That is a small thing but it's pure evil. And the sad thing is I'm sure that if I asked a recruiter "how can you sleep at night doing this" he'd just shrug and laugh because to him it's normal.

A recruitment agency that's hired on contract, or an internal recruiter at the company hiring?
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