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When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

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Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#201

Post by mikeshreds »

tomasien wrote: post #122
mikeshreds wrote: post #2

Hi All I'm a founder of Shred Video and the author of this article. Happy to answer any questions about our experience.

Feeling for you man - been there (recently). You'll get a lot of sideways looks from people who have no reason to doubt you. Ignore it. People always assume the person doing the suing MUST have a good reason. It's the same reason people jump ship whenever someone is accused of a crime: until it happens to you, nobody wants to believe something this destructive can happen without cause. But it does - every day. As a s…

This a more important point than anything I've said in here. Thank you.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#202

Post by ajju »

paulsutter wrote: post #30

My first instinct is to congratulate Shred for standing up to the big bully. That was really almost what I posted. But pick apart Shred's note, and really it's an emotional appeal based on two ideas: 1. That the sole test of stealing ideas is source code that has been copied verbatim. 2. That the only possible secrets of Smule are features implemented in released products. These are pretty weak legs to stand on. They…

Most likely this is some bullshit pissing contest with 0 innocent parties.

Pissing contests do not usually include one willing and one unwilling participant. Shred's note is not just an emotional appeal because if they did steal ideas, it is an open invitation for Smule to state what they are.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#203

Post by NickNameNick »

jfoutz wrote: post #111
david_shaw wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate this unbiased view. You're absolutely right that reading emotional appeals online is a slippery slope. However, reading this Business Insider article about the case ( http://www.businessinsider.com/smule-ceo-shred-video-lawsuit... ) really underscores the apparent sleaze on Smule's side: > You compare a 100-person company with 10, 30, 40 million dollars in the bank to a two-person startup. If it goes to…

I wonder if it's possible to optimize the cost differential. (probably not for a 2 person startup, but maybe a little bigger). But once it's terminal, clear you can't win, just dump all the money into making lots of specific, esoteric claims that require Giant Law Firm to spend hundreds of hours researching and responding to. Loser pays legal fees, but if i can get you to spend an order of magnitude or two more than…

Have you watched 'Halt and catch fire'?

The first or second episode sets up a legal battle, and the main character basically points out his company's staff lawyer to the opposition and says something to the effect of "We pay him $X, you can put hundreds of lawyers on this suit, we'll just have him."

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#204

Post by Beltiras »

I demanded a clause in my last employment contract stipulating that I retained the ability to use methods developed for later employment but the system as a whole is the property of my employer. Protects both parties. I can't steal his product. He can't prevent me from doing math.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#205

Post by krs_n »

What I have trouble understanding, given the ubiquitous nature of the internet, is that people continue to start up companies in the US or other countries where there is an unbalanced and corrupt legal system. Why not at least start a company in a country where you are guaranteed some form of defence through the courts even if you don't actually want to reside there?

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#206

Post by rodgerd »

marnett wrote: post #109
rfrank wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling Palantir evil strikes me as pretty fair.

how are they evil? I feel like I've missed something.

Anything awful the NSA do for patriotism (however misguided), Palantir do for money.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#207

Post by inflagranti »

jaynate wrote: post #176

Several rookie mistakes in here by the Shred team. First of all if you are gong to start a company while working for someone else, get an explicit agreement in writing before starting that venture. Second, there should have been an agreement/contract in place for doing the additional work which was requested by Smule. The claims of theft could still be made by Smule but Shred's story loses credibility for me because…

I so hate this attitude about people acting in good faith doing 'rookie mistakes'. I'm just answering to this post, but it's by far not the only one along those lines.

Why does everything have to be done on explicit contract basis? How can an altruistic act of one party (helping out after leaving the company for free) be turned against them!? Where will this end!? Will I have to get in writing that this was in no way meant as a bribe every if I ever pay a round of beer for a couple coworkers?

There should be protection in place that if people act in good faith they cannot easily be sued like this. And definitely this kind of victim blaming is not helping going in such direction.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#208

Post by kriro »

The "bullying" aspect of this is interesting to me. Would taking VC money from a big player help me in such a situation. Let's say for arguments sake I am backed by a16z. Is it usually part of the deal that they provide their legal muscle in these spots or am I on my own?

What would happen if a YC company (pre-funding) gets threatened in this manner? Edit: Nevermind didn't realize it is a YC company (summer of 2015 batch).

Here's the relevant blog post: http://blog.ycombinator.com/on-the-shred-video-lawsuit

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#209

Post by annnnd »

289375223 wrote: post #184
jheriko wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On stealing "ideas," do you have some advice here? IANAL, and esp. I am not from the US so I don't really have a good grasp of the spirit of the law there (except that from the outside it is constantly surprising and scary!) however, here in the UK i have some experience, esp because i want to ship software which directly competes with my previous employers in the future... one thing to remember is that working som…

Why would you need to go to these lengths (waiting 2 years and competing in a different geogrpahical region)? What have you done wrong by making a competitor to your previous companies product? I ask this because I am thinking of doing something similar due to the fact that my employer is extremely incompetent. I am the only developer of a project that I helped take from no revenue to hundreds of thousands of dollars…

It depends mostly on non-competing clause in your contract with them. Unless you steal their code (even if you wrote it, it's theirs!) I don't think they can sue you for using "their" ideas.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#210

Post by Draiken »

inflagranti wrote: post #207
jaynate wrote: post #176

Several rookie mistakes in here by the Shred team. First of all if you are gong to start a company while working for someone else, get an explicit agreement in writing before starting that venture. Second, there should have been an agreement/contract in place for doing the additional work which was requested by Smule. The claims of theft could still be made by Smule but Shred's story loses credibility for me because…

I so hate this attitude about people acting in good faith doing 'rookie mistakes'. I'm just answering to this post, but it's by far not the only one along those lines. Why does everything have to be done on explicit contract basis? How can an altruistic act of one party (helping out after leaving the company for free) be turned against them!? Where will this end!? Will I have to get in writing that this was in no way…

I would say it's because history teaches us that goodwill only gets you to a certain point.

When you're acting on good faith, asking for a formal contract should be seen as a totally normal request. If the other party is also acting on good faith.

This is basically a win/win situation. If they complain about such a simple request, they might be hiding something. And if they do agree to simply formalize the agreement, you're protected.

I've been burned by "good faith" before, and it changes you. By pointing out "rookie mistakes" maybe someone will read this and start taking these things a little bit more serious.

Of course on an ideal world, we'd be protected and shouldn't have to worry about it. But that's utopia for me

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