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When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

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Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#171

Post by mikeshreds »

dmourati wrote: post #51
snake117 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same feeling when I read how they told Mark to keep the laptop. I wish you guys all the best and hope this gets sorted out soon.

I get the whole leaving on good terms, really. But this whole "hey, we just want you to keep the code and answer questions for our other engineers" aspect really ought to have set off red flags. Pro-tip, hand write a nice letter to your boss/colleagues on your way out. Bingo, no burned bridges, and no risk of law suits for holding on to company IP.

Yeah, I hear you, hindsight 20-20.

It was Mark's manager John Shimmin who made that request. John is a great guy, and Mark had (still has?) a great relationship with him. He genuinely wanted to help Shimmin, and did so faithfully for weeks.

It's not fair to pin this on Mark and dismiss it with a "rookie move dude." Mark (and I) had no idea that facts could be twisted and ignored to create this kind of legal conflict. A lot of people operate under the guileless belief that if they help someone, that person/entity will not screw them. Mark is one of those people.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#172

Post by joshuahutt »

mikeshreds wrote: post #164
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this kind of stunt before, in the SCO v. IBM lawsuit. Your defense is to get the court to require the other side to state specifically what they think you stole, or to drop the claim. The law is on your side here. Vague claims aren't a part of a valid lawsuit. "Failure to state a claim actionable at law" may be the phrase you need. But what you really need is lawyers, and IANAL.

Yes, thoughtful response, our lawyers are looking into this very strategy.

Unless it's part of your legal strategy, it's probably not advisable to discuss your strategy publicly, before or during legal proceedings.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#175

Post by rayiner »

mikeshreds wrote: post #167
rayiner wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading stories from parties to litigation is like listening to a couple that just broke up discuss whose fault it was. You gotta read between the lines.

Of course, if one member in a couple has $40 million dollars and the other does not, and the rich one files a lawsuit against the other without even first talking to her, one might consider that the two are not equally culpable parties.

Didn't mean to imply anything about your particular situation. Just a meta-point. Litigants rarely think they're in the wrong--they view the situation through the lens of their personal narratives of what happened.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#176

Post by jaynate »

Several rookie mistakes in here by the Shred team. First of all if you are gong to start a company while working for someone else, get an explicit agreement in writing before starting that venture. Second, there should have been an agreement/contract in place for doing the additional work which was requested by Smule. The claims of theft could still be made by Smule but Shred's story loses credibility for me because these basic business practices weren't followed. Who is to say that the lines weren't blurred when it comes to leveraging the assets of the former company? And if a laptop is obviously the property of Smule then nobody can force you to keep it.

I feel much empathy for the Shred team but the story has a bunch of challenges buried within.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#177

Post by hga »

joshuahutt wrote: post #173

> He’s not suing us because we’ve harmed Smule in any material way. If they can't establish damages, and there was no breach of contract, it doesn't seem like they would have a case.

In that case, the remedy would presumably be an injunction, to prevent damages in the future.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#178

Post by x3n0ph3n3 »

mikeshreds wrote: post #41
paulsutter wrote: post #30

My first instinct is to congratulate Shred for standing up to the big bully. That was really almost what I posted. But pick apart Shred's note, and really it's an emotional appeal based on two ideas: 1. That the sole test of stealing ideas is source code that has been copied verbatim. 2. That the only possible secrets of Smule are features implemented in released products. These are pretty weak legs to stand on. They…

Hi Paul thanks for your comments. In the code comparison, the 3rd party will also be able to look at methods (in addition to code copied directly). We're more than happy to include proprietary methods in the review. On stealing "ideas," do you have some advice here? Smule has never specified what ideas they think we stole. What do you think is our burden of responsibility in proving we did not steal ideas our opponen…

Ideas aren't property and can't be stolen or owned. Only implementations of ideas via copyright and patents are (and maybe should) be protected.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#179

Post by aianus »

sandworm101 wrote: post #129
grizzles wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sandworm101: That's a really interesting comment. It sounds very anti free market to me, but I guess I'm not surprised. I guess the only recourse for a founder led company in that situation would be to leave the US. Not necessarily a great result. OT: Regarding the Coke/Pepsi thing, personally I think food manufacturers (I use the term loosely) should be forced to disclose what's in their products. Though I would str…

Leaving the US would do little beyond increasing the cost of litigation and making said founder look more like a fugitive. Tradesecret law and IP law generally is pretty universal. And you can still get sued where the alleged theft/taking/wrong took place. A default decision (ie you don't show up) by a US court will be enforced in Canada, Europe or most anywhere else. As for free markets, while IP law does create mon…

> A default decision (ie you don't show up) by a US court will be enforced in Canada, Europe or most anywhere else.

Russia and China will be more than happy to take your IP :)

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#180

Post by nitrogen »

x3n0ph3n3 wrote: post #178
mikeshreds wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Paul thanks for your comments. In the code comparison, the 3rd party will also be able to look at methods (in addition to code copied directly). We're more than happy to include proprietary methods in the review. On stealing "ideas," do you have some advice here? Smule has never specified what ideas they think we stole. What do you think is our burden of responsibility in proving we did not steal ideas our opponen…

Ideas aren't property and can't be stolen or owned. Only implementations of ideas via copyright and patents are (and maybe should) be protected.

There is also the concept of a trade secret.
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