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When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

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Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#51

Post by dmourati »

snake117 wrote: post #44
dmourati wrote: post #29

"Mark wanted an amicable departure with Smule, and was more than willing to help his former boss and co-workers after he left." Rookie mistake Mark. Clean break, and go do your thing. Good luck but you need to understand where you made your mistake before launching this whole David vs Goliath story.

I had the same feeling when I read how they told Mark to keep the laptop. I wish you guys all the best and hope this gets sorted out soon.

I get the whole leaving on good terms, really. But this whole "hey, we just want you to keep the code and answer questions for our other engineers" aspect really ought to have set off red flags.

Pro-tip, hand write a nice letter to your boss/colleagues on your way out. Bingo, no burned bridges, and no risk of law suits for holding on to company IP.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#52

Post by mikeshreds »

joeblau wrote: post #45

I'm always so paranoid of this at any of my employers so I go through great lengths ensure everything is separated. It's a lot more work in terms of managing your stuff, but can simplify situations like these. I always keep my work and my personal projects completely separated. Separate machines, separate repos, separate accounts and I don't do personal stuff at work. My goal is to have a clear separation so if eithe…

Completely agree. We ourselves were very conscientious to never do anything Shred Video-related on any Smule machines, and did not build anything Shred Video-related until after we'd terminated our full-time employment at Smule.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#53

Post by sandworm101 »

mikeshreds wrote: post #41
paulsutter wrote: post #30

My first instinct is to congratulate Shred for standing up to the big bully. That was really almost what I posted. But pick apart Shred's note, and really it's an emotional appeal based on two ideas: 1. That the sole test of stealing ideas is source code that has been copied verbatim. 2. That the only possible secrets of Smule are features implemented in released products. These are pretty weak legs to stand on. They…

Hi Paul thanks for your comments. In the code comparison, the 3rd party will also be able to look at methods (in addition to code copied directly). We're more than happy to include proprietary methods in the review. On stealing "ideas," do you have some advice here? Smule has never specified what ideas they think we stole. What do you think is our burden of responsibility in proving we did not steal ideas our opponen…

"Ideas" isn't a form of IP that can be stolen. Did you patent anything? Have you appropriately protected these ideas to qualify for any sort of tradesecret protections?

(ps. Don't answer. This is the sort of thing to be discussed with an attorney behind a closed door.)

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#54

Post by kumarm »

The only time I heard Jeff Smith was in Stanford Podcast[1]. I listened to every podcast on Stanford (DFJ Entrepreneurial Thought Leaders lecture series) and particularly remember Jeff Smith because I thought he came out wrong from the talk. His statement "Palantir is evil" because they hired a guy who smule was trying to recruit. Seriously you are giving a talk to inspire future entrepreneurs and use that to bad mouth someone who is not even your competitor?

PS: I have no relationship with Palantir. It just really bothered me that someone would use that opportunity to bad another company.

[1]http://ecorner.stanford.edu/authorMaterialInfo.html?mid=2992 (The point comes at the end as a reply to last question).

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#55

Post by [deleted] »

mikeshreds wrote: post #49
mangeletti wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, this is a really informed comment. To add to this, as a software engineer, while thinking through Smule's AutoRap app and the Shred Video app, I couldn't help but think that they could both probably benefit from a similar method for detecting (or synching with) beats, chorus, etc. Even though this sort of audio posterization (I'm not sure what it's really called) is not entirely novel, it's probably a reasonably…

Don't you think this will be absolved with a review of Shred Video's code/methods vs Smule's code/methods? And isn't it telling that Shred Video is more than willing to submit to such a review, but Smule has not yet acquiesced?

[deleted]

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#56

Post by slantedview »

The problem isn't source code theft, it's this, in the words of the Smule CEO [1]:

"If you fork off a startup and there's IP overlap, it's just a big mess."

And the big legal mess favors the company with more resources, something Smule knows. Whether the lawsuit is personal doesn't really matter. What matters is that former employees started a company in an overlapping product space, which unfortunately made them an easy target for litigation.

1: http://uk.businessinsider.com/smule-ceo-shred-video-lawsuit-...

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#57

Post by analog31 »

aidenn0 wrote: post #50
paulsutter wrote: post #30

My first instinct is to congratulate Shred for standing up to the big bully. That was really almost what I posted. But pick apart Shred's note, and really it's an emotional appeal based on two ideas: 1. That the sole test of stealing ideas is source code that has been copied verbatim. 2. That the only possible secrets of Smule are features implemented in released products. These are pretty weak legs to stand on. They…

How can you steal an idea? There is little to no protection for ideas. More tangible information may have a lot of protection, but ideas are more-or-less fair game.

I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it, if you're under non disclosure, somebody shares an idea with you, and you use it, then you've stolen an idea. Or, if the idea is patented.

Enforcement could be another issue, depending on evidence.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#58

Post by x0x0 »

This isn't the first time, even for a yc company. Remember AdGrok? I think the original post is down, but the short version is the founders met while working for AdChemy. AdChemy's ceo Murthy Nukala -- who sounds like a real piece of work; he apparently got $2.4m [1] in the eventual walmart acquisition while the employees got fuckall -- sued AdGrok and basically killed the company. They had to raise while being sued and the founders basically got tired of the stress [2].

[1] http://www.businessinsider.com/document-from-walmart-adchemy...

[2] http://priceonomics.com/the-time-my-startup-got-sued/

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#60

Post by mikeshreds »

7Figures2Commas wrote: post #48
mikeshreds wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a last nuclear option, and we're not in danger of losing our company to the lawsuit. Everything in the post is 100% true. We did get a lawyer involved when we started Shred Video, and are 100% sure our IP is clean and usable. It will take probably two years for the case to get fully adjudicated, and the legal recourse for preventing frivolous lawsuits like this is insufficient. Starting a startup is plent…

> It will take probably two years for the case to get fully adjudicated... During which time many prospective investors, partners and customers won't want to touch you with a 10 foot pole. > ...and the legal recourse for preventing frivolous lawsuits like this is insufficient. To be honest, this doesn't look like a frivolous lawsuit, even if this goes to trial and is adjudicated in your favor. Your post indicates tha…

In our case, we did not develop anything Shred-related (ideas or otherwise) while we were employed at Smule. So invention assignment is not at issue, because we did not moonlight on Shred Video while employed by Smule. I knew I wanted to build products for the GoPro audience, which is why I left Smule. Mark left for his own different reasons, and we only began prototyping on things that turned into Shred Video after he left Smule.
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