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When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

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Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#31
I'm in the middle of writing an article about startups and attorneys. Normally I write articles for attorneys to read, but this time I'm trying to write for startups. This story falls right into the "hate lawyers" mentality I;m trying to address.

They seem to have not adopted appropriate procedures for exiting an employee. Nor did they have appropriate advice on handling IP issues. This is evidenced by the article's conflation of copyright (the literal code) function (what the code does) and tradesecrets. Whether the code enables the same features is not the issue. It is very possible that he stole and used code in an altogether different product. It is also possible that he stole said code and didn't use in any other product. That can still be a copyright/tradesecret violation.

Having legal advice at hand can prevent these situations in the first place. It doesn't cost much to have a lawyer drop by for an afternoon each month. I do quick IP lectures all the time at small outfits. Making sure new employees and current managers understand what IP actual means can really calm the waters.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#33

Business Insider makes an interesting claim about the boss's public statements on litigation... http://uk.businessinsider.com/smule-ceo-shred-video-lawsuit-...

His quote make it appear as if the lawsuit is in bad faith. If Shred wins, they may have a case for malicious prosecution.

Yes, I completely agree. Thing is, we'd have to go through the full legal process before we could pursue that. Smule filed the lawsuit months before we even had a product or got into YC, they probably thought we wouldn't make it this far, let alone another two years.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#34
post #27

I am sad to say I was a Smule customer, having downloaded and played Magic Piano. I also purchased quite a few songs inside the app. It is/was a great app. Not anymore. I've deleted Magic Piano and I'll never again be downloading, purchasing or contributing to in any way Smule or Jeff Smith's companies or products.

Isn't it possible that there's another side to this?

Given Smule's apparent lack of interest in investigating whether their allegations have merit, it seems a little hard to imagine that their side of things actually does have merit.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#35

Hi All I'm a founder of Shred Video and the author of this article. Happy to answer any questions about our experience.

I have no questions but I just want to chime in to say good luck. You're fighting the good fight here and that's awesome.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#36

Hi All I'm a founder of Shred Video and the author of this article. Happy to answer any questions about our experience.

Have you consulted your lawyers? Ridiculous question, I know. I ask because of a combination of three things.

1) You wrote: "Jeff Smith and Smule are big and rich, and the US legal system offers little protection against frivolous lawsuits."

2) Going by CA Secretary of State website (and whois database), Shred Video is clearly based in California.

3) California has some pretty strong Anti-SLAPP legislation that would enable you to collect punitive damages when you prevail. I'm pretty sure Anti-SLAPP issues can be brought up in pretrial motions too. Maybe you need to check into the bona fides of your legal team.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_lawsuit_against_publ...

Standard disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, and this isn't legal advice.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#37
post #4

Genuinely curious for your legal counsel's take on you posting such an article publicly. I've always thought the prevailing wisdom shared by all lawyers was "don't talk." Also, in this day and age of using services like Github for personal projects but having access to other repos, etc., using things like 1Password for work and personal things, how has the discovery process worked with everything? I'm really interest…

I'd be inclined to agree but it seems like they've talked to YC and it's endorsed by them as well: https://twitter.com/paulg/status/646448913566687232

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#38

My first instinct is to congratulate Shred for standing up to the big bully. That was really almost what I posted. But pick apart Shred's note, and really it's an emotional appeal based on two ideas: 1. That the sole test of stealing ideas is source code that has been copied verbatim. 2. That the only possible secrets of Smule are features implemented in released products. These are pretty weak legs to stand on. They…

Wow, this is a really informed comment.

To add to this, as a software engineer, while thinking through Smule's AutoRap app and the Shred Video app, I couldn't help but think that they could both probably benefit from a similar method for detecting (or synching with) beats, chorus, etc. Even though this sort of audio posterization (I'm not sure what it's really called) is not entirely novel, it's probably a reasonably tough problem to solve. If I had to guess, I'd guess that this aspect is what Smule's case is based on.

FTR: I hope Shred Video wins, because, based on the Business Insider article linked herein, Smith seems to be, IMHO, a huge bully.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#39
post #4

Genuinely curious for your legal counsel's take on you posting such an article publicly. I've always thought the prevailing wisdom shared by all lawyers was "don't talk." Also, in this day and age of using services like Github for personal projects but having access to other repos, etc., using things like 1Password for work and personal things, how has the discovery process worked with everything? I'm really interest…

IMHO, your legal counsel provides advice, but that's it. You're already sitting on the receiving end of bullying with an existential threat, so there's a strategic choice (talk/don't talk) with risk on either side.

As a founder who has taken on a legal threat from a big-corp before, know that bigger companies are in the habit of being bullies like this, because they get away with it far more than they should, and they might not even realize how stupid it is. Big-corp's lawyers are simply incentivized to rack up billable hours, legit or not.

But when you can make it clear to big-corp's strategic decision makers that there's far less upside than they expect (including that they have practically zero chance of winning anything), and far more downside (including that they will really look like idiots in front of their customers, their employees, future strategic partners, etc), big-corp usually calls off its lawyers and moves on to the next person on their hit-list. They're usually rational enough not to pursue negative-ROI activities for very long simply for vengeance. If the threat of going public isn't enough to make them back down, it's ugly, but you've got to follow through.

Re: When Your Former Boss Sues You for Starting a Startup

#40
post #4

Genuinely curious for your legal counsel's take on you posting such an article publicly. I've always thought the prevailing wisdom shared by all lawyers was "don't talk." Also, in this day and age of using services like Github for personal projects but having access to other repos, etc., using things like 1Password for work and personal things, how has the discovery process worked with everything? I'm really interest…

I don;t think they passed this by legal. If they did, they aren't listening. Publicly airing dirty laundry while in the middle of a suit is a dangerous tactic. It doesn't take much to tack on new claims.
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