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Just doesn’t feel good

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Re: Just doesn’t feel good

#271

Post by icebraining »

untog wrote: post #157
ixtli wrote: post #55

I hate this supposition that everyone should bend over backwards to allow people who make money in a certain way continue making money in that way. Am I the only one thinks that the user's experience should be more important than everything else? Annoying advertisements are, in practice, the result of people failing to be creative in monetization. Ars Technica, for instance, has done a great job of integrating ads in…

I hate this supposition that everyone should bend over backwards to allow people who make money in a certain way continue making money in that way. You could just stop visiting the site that offends you. That would be the actual principled way to treat this - the content is not worth the price of admission. Instead, ad blockers let you take the content and sidestep the price of admission. I absolutely agree that medi…

You could just stop visiting the site that offends you. That would be the actual principled way to treat this - the content is not worth the price of admission.

No, it'd be your principled way to treat this. Not everyone shares your principles.

I don't share your principle that site owners have the right to demand that you accept their unilateral rules on how I should view the content they're sending me. I never explicitly nor implicitly agreed to those conditions. They are free to refuse my request, but if they don't, I am breaking no promise.

I could see your position for sites that click-wrapped their content with that condition, getting you to accept it, but not otherwise.

(By the way, I don't use ad blockers)

Re: Just doesn’t feel good

#272

Post by mjklin »

Spivak wrote: post #234
te_chris wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't one, because your position is idealistic and naive.

There is one, and I can name an easy example. The Welcome To Night Vale Podcast. All of their content is completely free and isn't supported by ads at all. They make money through live shows, merchandising, and donations, and I guess now book sales. It's exactly the model he's describing, free content that's not sponsored, has no strings attached, and is still hugely successful.

Also: Answer Me This, whose recent content is free but who charge for older content, special "albums", their book, and merch. Helen and Olly seem to be doing quite well.

Re: Just doesn’t feel good

#273

Post by deveac »

bcrescimanno wrote: post #127
cjensen wrote: post #20

Lots of people here trying to infer motives. Why not just believe what he says? He's a guy who has enough money, wants to do what he loves, and doesn't enjoy controversy. He's hacker enough to want to muck about with how to make a blocker, but it's not his joy. Basically, he's what many of us aspire to be.

I don't want to infer motives because I don't know. I will say that I am among those who doesn't really believe this is simply a morality tale. There are several folks here, like yourself, who are basically saying, "yeah, I can understand the mentality of not wanting to do and ad-blocker because of the moral grey area" I can understand that as well. What I can't understand is the quite sudden change of heart 2 days a…

>What I can't understand is the quite sudden change of heart 2 days after launching the product.

Again, I think the best answer is simply the one he gave:

>"Achieving this much success with Peace just doesn’t feel good, which I didn’t anticipate"

He didn't anticipate it. In other words, he learned something about himself.

Hopefully that happens all the time to all of us, and hopefully we have the courage to do what we consider the most conscionable thing, even if we know it will may unpopular.

Re: Just doesn’t feel good

#274

Post by georgechen »

gvr wrote: post #235
bcrescimanno wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to infer motives because I don't know. I will say that I am among those who doesn't really believe this is simply a morality tale. There are several folks here, like yourself, who are basically saying, "yeah, I can understand the mentality of not wanting to do and ad-blocker because of the moral grey area" I can understand that as well. What I can't understand is the quite sudden change of heart 2 days a…

My takeaway was that he doesn't want to be in the crossfire in the ads war. I can imagine that being very stressful and unpleasant with lots of hate mail etc. Especially if you compare it to an app like Overcast that brings joy to everyone using it.

Or worse, became in pawn in the Ad Wars between Google, Apple, and Facebook.

Let's face it, AdBlock on the Web only benefit closed network like Facebook, which also has plenty of PII. If the Web dies as as an Ad platform (because of AdBlockers), guess where the advertisers can go?

Re: Just doesn’t feel good

#275

Post by Killswitch »

msandford wrote: post #240
Killswitch wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

uBlock origin actually does and it's what I am running right now, ofcourse in blacklist mode. https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Dynamic-filtering:-tu...

Thanks for the link. I think there are about a dozen sites that I really loathe the advertising on. I haven't been running ad-blocking software (as I mention elsewhere in the thread) and I "punish" these websites by simply closing the tab as soon as it gets a little jerky while scrolling. A blacklist is an interesting idea. I'd like it even better if the blacklist was only active for a limited time so that I have to…

You're in luck. By putting it in blacklist mode, when you blacklist the site with uBlock Origin it's only temporary. After time it resets itself, unless after you black list it you click the lock.

Re: Just doesn’t feel good

#276

Post by byuu »

nemothekid wrote: post #260
byuu wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think ArsTechnica is also an example of where publishing needs to go because they don't show ads to subscribers. I think subscriptions are the way to go, but these sites really need to work on their pricing. Ars wants $5 a month for a few articles of text a day; whereas Netflix gives me millions of hours of movies for $8 a month. Frankly, I can't even imagine how Netflix pays for the bandwidth , let alone all the…

Except its entirely unclear that $5/month is sustainable, much less $1/mo. Consider that the stodgy "print media" like the New York Times had a customer base of 800,000 that were sold for $700/year (that included ads in them!) - thats half a billion dollars a year, Ars would need 100% american penetration to get that on $1/mo. Now obviously the cost side is changing for print, but the same is true for Netflix. I thin…

> Except its entirely unclear that $5/month is sustainable, much less $1/mo.

Right now, how many people are going to subscribe to a site? You have to trust them with your real info and credit card details, and maintain your login and card expiration. Cancellation's probably a hassle, too. You figure, probably one in ten thousand visitors are going to subscribe.

Have some sort of service, let's call it "Subscrybe", with a fancy button that sites put on their page. You click the button, agree to pay $1/mo, and you're back on the site ... ad-free, tracking-free, and with premium features (say, extra articles, rights to post comments on stories, etc.) No account hassles, no management hassles, no personal information given out. Maybe even better, have $1/mo be the "suggested" amount, and let people specify what they want. That sort of model has worked well for indie band/game downloads before.

My guess is the 1:10,000 figure changes to 1:1,000. Now you're making at least twice as much, even though each person is paying less. I can't prove this will be the case, but I feel it's an idea at least worth trying out. Just need a really big player to handle the subscription backend, and get some major sites onboard.

Your alternative right now, is that you get absolutely nothing, and they block your ads.

And if you still can't sustain a site with a few tech articles a day, then you'll have to fold. It's probably a sign the market's too saturated. As sources for quality news drop, they'll also have an increased paid viewership, until they're once again sustainable.

> I interested to see if Netflix can even think about raising their prices while more and more studios pull their content off Netflix and Netflix has to continue relying on in house programming.

I definitely fear this as well. Already, I'm up to Netflix+Hulu+Amazon Prime+Crunchyroll. CBS, Funimation, HBO, Showtime et al also want their own money, which I'm not going to do.

Even still, with just those four at around $30 a month (and no ads!), it feels too good to be true.

But if they keep forking, well ... I didn't ditch cable so I could split my $150/mo bill into 15 x $8-20 a month bills.

Re: Just doesn’t feel good

#278

Post by mikeash »

s73v3r wrote: post #277
mikeash wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not looking at an advertisement is not the same as stealing.

Except having the ads there is the cost for the content you're looking at.

When you buy stuff in a store, the items remain the property of the store until you pay. If you take them without paying then you're stealing. This is firmly enshrined in both morality and law.

When you view something with ads, they send you the stuff first, on the hope or assumption that you will later view the ads. No property changes hands at any time.

Re: Just doesn’t feel good

#279

Post by tajen »

byuu wrote: post #276
nemothekid wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except its entirely unclear that $5/month is sustainable, much less $1/mo. Consider that the stodgy "print media" like the New York Times had a customer base of 800,000 that were sold for $700/year (that included ads in them!) - thats half a billion dollars a year, Ars would need 100% american penetration to get that on $1/mo. Now obviously the cost side is changing for print, but the same is true for Netflix. I thin…

> Except its entirely unclear that $5/month is sustainable, much less $1/mo. Right now, how many people are going to subscribe to a site? You have to trust them with your real info and credit card details, and maintain your login and card expiration. Cancellation's probably a hassle, too. You figure, probably one in ten thousand visitors are going to subscribe. Have some sort of service, let's call it "Subscrybe", wi…

I would pay for ... Hacker News. The value of journalism is so often negative (with writers removing facts from the original scientific paper and adding a deceptive title), the only real value in my online parkour is a hundred comments from Hackers News. Ten of them will add facts, dozens will bring various point of views for/against the essay, one will really put the story into perspective.

I wouldn't know how to monetize HN without disturbing the savvy balance of profiles and the quality of comments, but to this day HN is the one journalism work that adds value to my life.

Re: Just doesn’t feel good

#280

Post by Mz »

tajen wrote: post #279
byuu wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except its entirely unclear that $5/month is sustainable, much less $1/mo. Right now, how many people are going to subscribe to a site? You have to trust them with your real info and credit card details, and maintain your login and card expiration. Cancellation's probably a hassle, too. You figure, probably one in ten thousand visitors are going to subscribe. Have some sort of service, let's call it "Subscrybe", wi…

I would pay for ... Hacker News. The value of journalism is so often negative (with writers removing facts from the original scientific paper and adding a deceptive title), the only real value in my online parkour is a hundred comments from Hackers News. Ten of them will add facts, dozens will bring various point of views for/against the essay, one will really put the story into perspective. I wouldn't know how to mo…

In a sense, HN is already "monetized." It is part of the business model for YC. They are hardly paupers.
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