Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 133 posts

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#111

Post by benplumley »

IshKebab wrote: post #106
Grue3 wrote: post #105

I call bullshit, in Russia people still write in cursive long after introduction of ballpoint pen, because that's what people are taught in school. It also happens to be much faster than print, regardless of the writing implement, so that helps too.

Same in the UK.

We were certainly taught cursive, but I don't know a single person who still uses it other than me. Their writing is (for the most part) slow and legible, mine is fast and almost unreadable. More so when I use a fountain pen.

Still, it's moot - as the article author said - because I haven't had to handwrite more than my own name in the last 6 months.

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#112

Post by iolothebard »

bambax wrote: post #93

In France everyone uses ballpoints, and yet everyone writes cursive, so I very much doubt there's any connection between the two. The weird handwriting of Americans certainly has to do with how they're taught, not what they use. I have three kids that are currently learning to write (aged 6, 7 and 10) and a great deal of time is spent forming nice, cursive letters (copying lines of frequent letter pairs to lean how t…

I took touch typing in the 1980s. It was just on an IBM Selectric "massaging" typewriter :-)

Bvvvvvvvvvvvv.... (the sound that thing made)

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#113

Post by watmough »

ghaff wrote: post #35
jacobolus wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn’t trying to disagree with your original comment, which makes great points. My point is just that Palmer’s script isn’t practical/legible in comparison to italic. It’s filled with lots of little flourishes, makes it easy to write letters in a confusable way, and is very difficult for children to learn. The capital letters in particular are ridiculous. For someone highly trained, it can be fast, but it’s not inh…

>As a curriculum/pedagogy, teachers using the Palmer method focused on drilling and discipline, the same “do it correctly or I’ll hit you” style common to instruction in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Where early 20th century extended into at least the 1960s at one Catholic grade school I could name :-)

There was a ruler poised over my knuckles well into the 70's...

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#114

Post by auganov »

Grue3 wrote: post #105

I call bullshit, in Russia people still write in cursive long after introduction of ballpoint pen, because that's what people are taught in school. It also happens to be much faster than print, regardless of the writing implement, so that helps too.

In Poland, people in schools are too usually forced to write in cursive. But that doesn't mean people like it or are particularly good at it. I was amongst the not-so-few that just couldn't/wouldn't write legibly enough. Some teachers would just give you 0 points for stuff they didn't want to or couldn't read. The most ironic part is, most teachers (and most adults in the "real world") have terribly illegible cursive too. Say when they'd write a comment on your exam, I could rarely understand it. Usually you'd ask some other students for their guess or just go ask the teacher.

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#115

Post by scholia »

amouat wrote: post #67
rmason wrote: post #6

I learned cursive writing in first grade in 1958 (in Detroit) and we were already using ballpoint pens. But the desks we used had working inkwells, emptied of the ink, so I'd guess the change was fairly recent because a few years later the inkwells had been removed just leaving big holes in the desks where they'd resided. The biggest thing back then was that I was left handed and the teachers forced me to write right…

My primary school (UK) had desks with inkwells in the 80s. I have no idea when the inkwells had last been used. The idea of giving 4-11 yo kids ink seems crazy now.

I was an "ink monitor" at school in the UK in the 1950s. My job was to go round and fill up empty inkwells. It was the pinnacle of my career ;-)

I don't remember any problems. We were very well-behaved.

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#117

Post by sandGorgon »

kctess5 wrote: post #59
sandGorgon wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how would you compare them with Gel Rollerballs ? [1] I am partial to the Parker rollerball refills - I use a Parker Chinese Laque Ambre - but do not want the inconvenience of a fountain pen. I believe a rollerball is like the Nespresso to the fountain pen's espresso. Slightly worse - but much better than ball point pens. But the best part that I like about rollerballs is how you can get an expensive experience in a…

I think your analogy is pretty good. I usually have a few loose g2s with me in case I run out of fountain pen ink in class. I find that gel pens sometimes make globs of ink, and that the lines aren't as nice as my FPs, but the writing experience is similar. I do like the solid weight and feel of my fountain pens though, which is often lacking in rollerballs. The weight of the pen is the only thing that holds it again…

Ur right about the weight. And I believe that is what a lot of people complain about in a rollerball. Which is why I use my Parker Sonnet. A good heavier rollerball is the cool looking Retro 51 (which uses Parker refills).

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#118

Post by mcguire »

"And since the thin ink flows more quickly, I have to refill the pen frequently."

While technically true, that fountain pens will use more ink, keep in mind that (a) ink is cheap, (b) refilling is easy, and (c) some[1] pens have a larger ink capacity.

[1] http://asapens.in/eshop/fountain-pen/gama-ebonite-pens/gama-...

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#119

Post by Udo_Schmitz »

colinsidoti wrote: post #16

Any lefties here? I'm a lefty and feel stuck with the basic ballpoint because any other pen I try ends up with everything smudged. Not sure if that's just poor form on my part.

In Germany you can buy fountain pens for left handers. (Faber-Castell and Lamy I know of)

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#120

Post by girvo »

rwmj wrote: post #96
sandGorgon wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how would you compare them with Gel Rollerballs ? [1] I am partial to the Parker rollerball refills - I use a Parker Chinese Laque Ambre - but do not want the inconvenience of a fountain pen. I believe a rollerball is like the Nespresso to the fountain pen's espresso. Slightly worse - but much better than ball point pens. But the best part that I like about rollerballs is how you can get an expensive experience in a…

Japanese Gel Rollerballs are also excellent. The Uni-ball UM153S Impact Gel Rollerball 1.0mm Tip (made by the awesomely-named Mitsubishi Pencil Company) is my go-to pen for everyday writing.

Excellent pen. My daily "driver" are the Uniball Jetstreams, a ball-point that writes like a gel rollerball. Amazing little pen, considering its $7.
Post reply on HN