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How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

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Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#81

Post by gknoy »

sandGorgon wrote: post #47
kctess5 wrote: post #30

I've almost exclusively used fountain pens for about 5 years now, and it's been amazing. Modern fountain pens don't generally leak much, and they are SO much better to write with than a basic Bic/generic ballpoint. The primary difference is that you don't have to push down at all which saves your hand from a huge amount of stress after a long writing session. I really don't understand why more people don't use them t…

how would you compare them with Gel Rollerballs ? [1] I am partial to the Parker rollerball refills - I use a Parker Chinese Laque Ambre - but do not want the inconvenience of a fountain pen. I believe a rollerball is like the Nespresso to the fountain pen's espresso. Slightly worse - but much better than ball point pens. But the best part that I like about rollerballs is how you can get an expensive experience in a…

I miss writing with fountain pens, and use gel rollerballs exclusively now (cheap, waterproof, I don't cry if I lose it, and the office has boxes of them). I like them well enough, and my writing is more legible ... but I really miss the experience of writing w/ a fountain pen. The feel is very different.

If you're curious, one of the cheaper ($3-$4) disposable fountain pens (I think it was Pilot?) were a great introduction. When I first used one (on nice paper that didn't suck up all the ink into ugliness), it was amazing, even though I know there are better ones out there.

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#83

Post by personalcompute »

fabian2k wrote: post #80

Discussions about cursive writing on the Internet confused me quite a bit until I noticed that there seems to be a pretty large difference between what I learned in Germany and what people in the US learned. What children learn in Germany for at least a few decades now looks like the following: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Vereinfachte_Ausgangssch... From what I understand, the cursive script that was taught i…

For what it is worth, the lowercase cursive characters I learned in American public primary school around ~2002 were very similar or possibly identical to the lowercase characters in your image. However, the uppercase characters did have some more complexity.

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#84

Post by gknoy »

jonah wrote: post #19

If you want to try fountain pens but don't want to spend $$ on a nice one at first, check out the Pilot Varsity line.[1] They're cheap and disposable and seem to write pretty well. (I'm no expert on fountain pens though.) I use them for note taking at meetings and whatnot. You do want a fairly fine/tight paper to write on though - the same as any other liquid-ink pen. [1] http://pilotpen.us/categories/fountain-pens/v…

I loved them. I seem to recall them not being waterproof, though.

For paper, try the bamboo-based paper from Staples. :)

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#85

Post by tacticus »

kctess5 wrote: post #23
jonah wrote: post #19

If you want to try fountain pens but don't want to spend $$ on a nice one at first, check out the Pilot Varsity line.[1] They're cheap and disposable and seem to write pretty well. (I'm no expert on fountain pens though.) I use them for note taking at meetings and whatnot. You do want a fairly fine/tight paper to write on though - the same as any other liquid-ink pen. [1] http://pilotpen.us/categories/fountain-pens/v…

I can recommend the Pilot Metropolitan [1]! I have two and they are better than some "very nice" fountain pens I've used/had. Very smooth, very little issues with leaking, pretty cheap at [1] http://www.gouletpens.com/Pilot-Metropolitan/c/191

I'll second this recommendation. the metropolitans are great pens.

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#86

Post by vizeroth »

witty_username wrote: post #34
guard-of-terra wrote: post #24

I say good riddance. Leave it to people who make a job out of it. We should admit it and move on, removing stuck bits of handwriting from where it doesn't belong anymore. I personally never liked writing on paper, it was ugly and time-consuming; I would never be able to express myself on paper: I'll compress the meaning away or just quit halfway through.

Yup, my typing speed is ~80 WPM and my writing speed is probably way less and not even as easy to read.

My typing speed is more than 80 WPM when I'm 12 hours into a bad day and my handwriting is horrid, but I still often use paper to clarify my thoughts, take notes, and draw diagrams. More often than not, I never actually read what I've written, the act of writing just makes it easier for me to retain the information.

Similarly, I've found that I can retain the content of electronic documents more easily if I type them out in a text editor. Sometimes I just delete the text, other times I retain it as a more portable version of the content.

Most members of my family think it's strange that I work with paper so much (and continue to buy most of my books in paper form), given that I've made a living writing software and websites for almost 20 years. I just think that, even with computers in the house from a young age, I was taught to use my brain through paper, and every alternative they've come up with to date has been, at best, a half-assed imitation.

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#87

Post by a_e_k »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #24

I say good riddance. Leave it to people who make a job out of it. We should admit it and move on, removing stuck bits of handwriting from where it doesn't belong anymore. I personally never liked writing on paper, it was ugly and time-consuming; I would never be able to express myself on paper: I'll compress the meaning away or just quit halfway through.

I still like it for taking notes. Stuff seems to stick better in my mind when I take notes by hand compared to when I take notes by typing.

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#89

Post by vizeroth »

fabian2k wrote: post #80

Discussions about cursive writing on the Internet confused me quite a bit until I noticed that there seems to be a pretty large difference between what I learned in Germany and what people in the US learned. What children learn in Germany for at least a few decades now looks like the following: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Vereinfachte_Ausgangssch... From what I understand, the cursive script that was taught i…

Since I was taught in a California public school in the 1980s, I believe I was taught using the Zaner-Bloser method. As someone else mentioned, the lowercase letters look mostly the same, but there are more differences in the uppercase letters. The main thing that strikes me in looking at your example is that I would have to lift my pen/pencil to generate most of those uppercase letters. In general, if I write in cursive, I only lift my pen/pencil off the page at the end of a word, and I tend to drag the tail of the last letter of the word back if I need to cross a 't' or dot an 'i' or 'j'. I also developed a habit of crossing my 'z' (and 'Z', and the number 7), oddly enough, from my German teacher in high school (though she was from Munich, and probably learned her handwriting in the 1940s or 1950s).

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#90

Post by eloisant »

fabian2k wrote: post #80

Discussions about cursive writing on the Internet confused me quite a bit until I noticed that there seems to be a pretty large difference between what I learned in Germany and what people in the US learned. What children learn in Germany for at least a few decades now looks like the following: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Vereinfachte_Ausgangssch... From what I understand, the cursive script that was taught i…

Indeed, in France everyone still write in cursive even with ball pens.

Having to lift the pen for each letter seems so tedious that I don't understand how Americans can write such long texts in print.

The only case where we don't is to fill administrative forms, as they force you to write in print for legibility.

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