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Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

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81–90 of 193 posts

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#81
If you want to be extra paranoid, sit down and make a list of everything you need to do to start a small software company besides write code.

Stuff like, find co-founders, identify the customers for the product you want to create, figure out your business model (direct sales? support? freemium? ads?), run numbers on your business model (how successful would you have to be to turn a profit?), how do you file taxes as a business (in many countries the process is different), how will you recruit employees, remote, developers, sales, do you need to incorporate immediately, how do you do that, is there a payroll/benefits provider you should sign up with, how much does that cost, where can you get angel and VC funding for your company, are there any conferences you should go to to identify customers or competitors, etc etc etc.

There's a lot of stuff to do and learn to start a successful company besides producing you MVP. Get them out of the way now and focus on honing your programming skills. And if you don't like thinking about taxes and employee benefits and balancing what you can afford against what you want to provide, well, you might consider just working at a startup instead of starting one.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#82
post #35
post #26

A.f.a.i.k. while I am not a lawyer, rule of thumb is anything you do * on your own equipment * on your own time can be considered yours. If you want to be extra sure, maybe consider first switching from employment to consulting? A friend of mine was primarily a consultant in pc-game-marketing space and then he founded a company, slowly building out a product. On the other hand, I get that going for consulting gigs ca…

Note that OP writes that they are from a third world country. That means we don't know which jurisdiction applies, but it's not US or anywhere in Europe. So IP and labor laws may be very different from what we would consider normal or fair.

In that case it would really point towards "just be a consultant", where the balance of power can somewhat swing back from the corporation to the person doing the work.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#83
post #58

> a bunch of contract clauses that basically lets the company own all IP while employed. Probably the most practical solution here is to simply disregard this clause in the contract. Breaching such a clause would be a civil, not a criminal offense, and it is unlikely that a civil complaint would be even considered unless there was a lot of money at stake, and it was easy/cheap to prove/uphold. In order for it to be u…

Just start a company and make sure you document that the company you created is doing the work and not you personally. That'll probably throw a spanner in the works if it ever did get legal. You could say a contractor did the work then I guess. Obviously I'm not a lawyer and I'm probably totally in the wrong but seems at least another layer of safety over you just doing it personally if your employment contract says your employer owns all IP regardless of when its worked on as long as you're employed by them.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#84
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that OP writes that they are from a third world country. That means we don't know which jurisdiction applies, but it's not US or anywhere in Europe. So IP and labor laws may be very different from what we would consider normal or fair.

Ireland, Austria, Sweden, Finland, Switzerland and Yugoslavia are all third-world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World

From the position of the ost-block, Ireland, Austria, Sweden, Finland and Switzerland, were definitely considered first-world western countries :-)

Yugoslavia is weird. But I would never dare insult somebody from former Yugoslavia by suggesting they are from a third-world country, it would be like asking for a black-eye :D (unless we are friends, and already drunk, then they might suggest it themselves?)

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#85
Would you mind sending me your resume? I have a job you could do for $30k/year, it’s not glamorous but also not difficult and I don’t care how much time you spend working on your side projects as long as the work gets done in a reasonable amount of time. Email is in my profile.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#86
Often we forget a company of one person is no company, it’s a business. A company implies multiple people working toward a goal, often people forget that, so start thinking about it now.

Start thinking about who you will hire. What will they do? How much do you need to pay them? What skills do they need?

Begin with a spreadsheet. Estimate monthly cash flow. How many employees can you afford? What’s the ROI from a single employee? In the beginning it may just be you. Which employees even contribute to revenue and which are just support? At what point does the ROI of the employee bring in enough revenue to hire a second employee and have sufficient runway for the business? Then figure out when you can hire the third, and the forth, and at what point (if ever) does revenue grow enough that you can start hiring dozens of employees. Does this business still make sense with this company?

How many hours do your employees work? What hours do they work? How much time off do they get? How much does it cost you? As your headcount grows, your revenue should be growing, but your costs also grow. Is there ever time to make big company investments? Better offices or company getaways for morale and team building? Do you even have offices? Where do all these people work? Surely you can’t all just be in a coffee shop somewhere. Do they work remotely? If so then what time zones are they in, and how will you know they can trust you or you trust them? How do you know they won’t steal from the company, or do their own personal work while working on company time?

Who will do your sales? Initially probably you, but not for long, you have other things to do. How will sales people be compensated? Purely commission based? Maybe it works if you have a very high value product, but even then you probably also need to give them a salary to keep them around. How much commission? How long is the sales cycle?

How will you measure employee performance? How will you deal with non-performers? How will you fire someone? With little to no mercy? Even if they really need the job?

And how will you delegate responsibilities? When do you plan to delegate spending decisions to someone who handles finances? When will you dedicate someone to hiring people and managing employee relations?

All this and more are things you will have to confront if you plan to build a real company.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#87
post #73
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Why would the company care what he does in his free time? Assuming he is not using company IP or working on company time, it should be completely up to him. Sure, the company will not want him to suddenly leave to launch his company, but the way to combat that is by making the position more attractive, and screening for it when hiring. The American view on labour seems quite similar to slavery.

He explicitly stated that the contract is inclusive of that context.

Sure, but my point is that this is pointless, absurd and immoral. And probably not enforceable.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#88
> I'm from a third world country, so I won't be able to alter contract clauses

Just because you need a job doesn't mean you should accept whatever the company offers. You should be assertive and inquisitive when it comes to these kinds of clauses, especially at new jobs. I've had contracts altered slightly or completely before starting with a company, from things like where and with whom I get to work after I leave, to IP. Even if company says that this is a deal breaker for them and that the clause has to stay, and you choose to accept, I think it's good to at least demonstrate that your objection.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#89
post #72

The clauses I have seen attempt to claim all intellectual work regardless of when it was done or whether it was related to the job. To me, this is an indication that we truly have not progressed beyond wage slavery. I believe such clauses should be illegal. I think one thing we might be able to do is to create a list of companies that have blanket clauses like this and then some people (not most) will have the luxury…

It'd probably be easier to create a list of companies without

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#90
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that first advice a bit paranoid. What country are you from where it is normal that a company is logging and spying on its employers? I have a company laptop but there is no logging whatsoever. Outside office hours I use this laptop to do personal stuff all the time.

In many countries if you have a company laptop then everything on that laptop or done on that laptop belong to the company. They are unlikely to be spying on your directly, but they will often have administrative access, will perform backups to ensure continuity of business data you are working on etc. If you leave and start a competing company someone in IT is going to get a call asking them to check your archived d…

I appreciate your concern, but in this case, there is really nothing going on this laptop that I am not aware of. Company e-mail is archived somewhere in Google but I obviously don't use my company e-mail for personal use.

I am a bit surprised that multiple people here are living in such a permanent state of paranoia.

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