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Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

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Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#51

Post by lawnchair »

m12k wrote: post #35
a-saleh wrote: post #26

A.f.a.i.k. while I am not a lawyer, rule of thumb is anything you do * on your own equipment * on your own time can be considered yours. If you want to be extra sure, maybe consider first switching from employment to consulting? A friend of mine was primarily a consultant in pc-game-marketing space and then he founded a company, slowly building out a product. On the other hand, I get that going for consulting gigs ca…

Note that OP writes that they are from a third world country. That means we don't know which jurisdiction applies, but it's not US or anywhere in Europe. So IP and labor laws may be very different from what we would consider normal or fair.

Ireland, Austria, Sweden, Finland, Switzerland and Yugoslavia are all third-world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#54

Post by downrightmike »

Grustaf wrote: post #27
sessy wrote: post #12

1. Be fair to your company. They are paying you to make their product succeed. Imagine a future situation where you are running a succesful company. Would you want your employees taking your money while working on their own pet projects? 2. An hour or two every day and code marathons on weekends can get your a basic version of product out in a few months. 3. Never give in to temptation to steal office hours to work o…

1. Why would the company care what he does in his free time? Assuming he is not using company IP or working on company time, it should be completely up to him. Sure, the company will not want him to suddenly leave to launch his company, but the way to combat that is by making the position more attractive, and screening for it when hiring. The American view on labour seems quite similar to slavery.

Wage slave is a real thing.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#55

Post by sonnyblarney »

Kaotique wrote: post #22
WestCoastJustin wrote: post #7

Do not do anything non-work related on company equipment! Ever, for any reason, seriously don't do it! Do not even research the idea! Assume the company is logging everything. They likely are. Honestly, I'd just focus on work and learn if you are just starting out. Learn as much as you can while employed by other folks (they are basically paying you to learn). Learn as much about the business your company is in too.…

I find that first advice a bit paranoid. What country are you from where it is normal that a company is logging and spying on its employers? I have a company laptop but there is no logging whatsoever. Outside office hours I use this laptop to do personal stuff all the time.

"What country are you from where it is normal that a company is logging and spying on its employers? "

This is everywhere.

"I have a company laptop but there is no logging whatsoever."

I suggest they very well could be logging your web requests. This is very common.

It's not like your manager is necessarily even going to have access to this. They're not interested in what you are doing, generally.

But if there is a serious security problem, or a legal problem ... this will then be used.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#57

Post by vectorEQ »

unless you work 24/7 your own time should still be yours. however, anything generally developed / worked on on company resources is theirs. at least that how it works for my contract. That means u can on your own machines and own time make something for yourself. but if you ever once accidentally even load it onto work computer, it belongs to them.

if they don't even let you do that, then i would firstly seek a job which does let you work for yourself on your own time, and then start really pushing for your own company. Learning how to do so is free for you to pursue, as long as you don't 'make' anything on the companies' system / resources it should be out of their sight and safe to do.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#58

Post by fergie »

> a bunch of contract clauses that basically lets the company own all IP while employed.

Probably the most practical solution here is to simply disregard this clause in the contract. Breaching such a clause would be a civil, not a criminal offense, and it is unlikely that a civil complaint would be even considered unless there was a lot of money at stake, and it was easy/cheap to prove/uphold. In order for it to be upheld your employer would have to spend a lot of time and energy deciding, and then proving what it was you built "on their time".

In other words, given that you don't actively publicize your own personal contribution to a commercial project its very unlikely that your employer can have any leverage over you in this regard.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#59

Post by i_don_t_know »

archi42 wrote: post #28
stingraycharles wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is default here as well (Germany), but I only interpret this as stuff done during work time. This is a very dangerous attitude. I'm from The Netherlands, consulted a lawyer on this matter, and she confirmed it was definitely an issue. I proceeded to make it explicit in the contract that it only covers IP created during work time and/or on company hardware. What you're saying is definitely understandable, but i…

Wow, okay. I honestly didn't believe that was legally possible - and thanks for pointing out that I'm probably wrong. I checked the wording of my contract, and regarding "my employer has ownership of my work" it explicitly says "im Rahmen dieses Arbeitsverhältnisses" -> "as part of this employment relationship". So I suppose I'm safe (there is a clause that I have to ask for permission to do side jobs; but I know com…

I asked about this before joining my current employer: I'd like to write a tetris clone and sell it on the AppStore (that was the specific example I used). I promise I won't use company resources. They said please don't. It's a grey area. Worst case you'll have to explain to a judge why your code doesn't infringe on anything the company owns or does. Even if it's something as trivial as a tetris clone.

You are however fairly safe if it's completely different from your work, for example, pottery or writing fiction (assuming your company does neither).

As for "as part of this employment relationship", I'm not a lawyer but I wouldn't assume that it applies only to what you do at the office. It might very well apply to anything while you are employed there. You need to clear the scope of that with HR or a lawyer.

You definitely don't want to base your company on shaky legal grounds. You might lose your company, your product, and your job. It probably won't look good in your Arbeitszeugnis either.

Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?

#60

Post by aliswe »

Regarding "I am from a third world country, so I won't be able alter the contract clauses", I dunno in what country you are working, but most of the western world isn't like that.

Perhaps you think like that because you are from a third world country and you are used to being abused by your employers.

(And it's not that I am western supremacist, actually I happen to like middle east and asia better)

Look at some inspirational talks by non westerners, like garyvee for example. He's immigrant. He's taken command of the situation. You can too. The only thing enabling him to do so is knowledge, experience, and a unique attitude.

Over the years I've emailed CEOs, CTOs, and PMs of some of the most successful companies in the world (and also a lot of professors), and you know what? Most of them respond. They're just a little busy.

By the way, I have a question. Why don't you just ask?

Opening a dialogue is never wrong nor is it actually difficult.

Btw, read everything here:

https://www.samuelthomasdavies.com/book-summaries/business/

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