You cannot and you should not due to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem_effect
Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?
71–80 of 193 posts
Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?
#72The clauses I have seen attempt to claim all intellectual work regardless of when it was done or whether it was related to the job.
To me, this is an indication that we truly have not progressed beyond wage slavery. I believe such clauses should be illegal.
I think one thing we might be able to do is to create a list of companies that have blanket clauses like this and then some people (not most) will have the luxury of boycotting them. I see this as a human rights issue actually. It is an attempt to trap an individual indefinitely in a labor mode.
And yes, it's extremely common and a standard legal practice. So was outright slavery for many thousands of years. However, attempting to claim unrelated work outside of office hours is a violation of natural rights.
Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?
#731. Be fair to your company. They are paying you to make their product succeed. Imagine a future situation where you are running a succesful company. Would you want your employees taking your money while working on their own pet projects? 2. An hour or two every day and code marathons on weekends can get your a basic version of product out in a few months. 3. Never give in to temptation to steal office hours to work o…
1. Why would the company care what he does in his free time? Assuming he is not using company IP or working on company time, it should be completely up to him. Sure, the company will not want him to suddenly leave to launch his company, but the way to combat that is by making the position more attractive, and screening for it when hiring. The American view on labour seems quite similar to slavery.
He explicitly stated that the contract is inclusive of that context.
Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?
#74My suggestion is to make a careful attempt to modify the clauses to specify only related work done on company time.
If it is not possible, then work for them for awhile, save up, and try to find another company. Be upfront with the next company about the issue before you get too deep into the negotiation.
Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?
#75First, with respect to the IP ownership. Be honest with the company you are joining about your entrepreneurial goals (it’s usually a quality that good managers like). You may underestimate their willingness to be flexible. Contracts are alway about setting terms, especially for future unknown situations - if you expect a future situation to arise you can set the right terms.
Second, being a good developer doesn’t always equate to launching a company. The skills you might use to launch something new might not be your dev skills at all. Understanding a problem/solution/market fit requires lots of skills you won’t get writing software. You can/should do customer research, low fidelity testing, etc. to prove to yourself something is a good idea before jumping into a new venture.
Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?
#76There's a lot you can do in terms of starting a company apart from writing code.
Things like competitive research, talking to customers and meeting possible co founders/team members out in the community. You can set up landing pages and test the market and hire contractors to do some work. Also, talking to customers (worth mentioning twice).
You can also read about starting a company (nolo books are good).
This will give you a foundation when you are ready that will put you ahead of others.
Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?
#77you should see a lawyer about these things - its likely that your employer will claim ownership on your IP if its similar to what they produce. in my experience, its not worth the headache.
Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?
#78hunker down and save as much money as you possibly can. it will take 3x longer than you think and you will need the savings.
literally this is your most important job. build a savings buffer of 3 years, at least. the bigger the buffer the less you will feel tempted to abandon it.
Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?
#791. Be fair to your company. They are paying you to make their product succeed. Imagine a future situation where you are running a succesful company. Would you want your employees taking your money while working on their own pet projects? 2. An hour or two every day and code marathons on weekends can get your a basic version of product out in a few months. 3. Never give in to temptation to steal office hours to work o…
> 1. Be fair to your company. They are paying you to make their product succeed. Imagine a future situation where you are running a succesful company. Would you want your employees taking your money while working on their own pet projects?
On this point in particular, if you're doing pet project work outside of working hours, then your employer should have absolutely no say on what you're doing. You wouldn't have them manage your hobbies, your social life or your dating life, that would be unreasonable, same goes for side projects.
Re: Ask HN: How can I work towards building a company while employed?
#80Regarding Pioneer.app, carefully consider. If I recall correctly they take a percentage, if they want and they only provide mentorship not really a lot of funds (some though).
I’d focus on an open source project in the realm of what you’re interested in. Email your manager asking if that’s alright, print and save the email. Make it clear it’s on your own time to improve your skills. Later use the open source project to start your own business, if it pertains to it. Otherwise at the very least, you’ll have gained skills and some credibility.