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Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

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Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#101

Post by jonathanfoster »

ineptech wrote: post #61

I manage people and have some advice. Start with, "I'd like to be converted to full remote, what's the process for that?" The answer is probably "I don't know but I don't think it would fly." Insist that your manager ask up the chain for an official answer. If the answer is "nope", next say: "I'm not comfortable returning to the office for health reasons. Will I be fired?" This is two-pronged: a) it introduces privat…

@ineptech knows what he's talking about. Follow this advice.

Here are some more ideas to consider. Source: 18+ years of experience as an engineer, manager, and director.

The theme is make your manager's life easy and he/she will do whatever they can to help you out.

Depending upon the size of your company, your manager may have more or less discretion with WFH. Whatever you do, don't put him/her into a corner with an all or nothing demand. Be clear with what you want, but be willing to negotiate how it happens.

If you've consistently delivered in the past, you have a tremendous amount of leverage. Believe me, the last thing a manager will want to do is lose one of his/her top engineers especially given this job market. Make sure they know you have options and you're willing to exercise them, but you really want to stay put.

Be patient, but hold a hard line. Most managers are inundated with bureaucracy which means almost nothing moves fast. Don't be surprised if your request gets pushed down the stack due to the latest fire that needs attention. Keep offering up options that make their life easier. I know, I know, this is about you not them, but trust me on this one. Make whatever solution you want easy for them. HR says no? Talk to HR, find the loop hole (private healthcare decision sounds perfect).

Alright, this one may be a bit more out there. Reader discretion advised. Just do it. Don't come back in the office. Don't make a lot of noise about it, make sure your productivity stays up, and have numbers to back it up. If your manager catches heat, do whatever is necessary to relieve him or her then go back to WFH.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#102

Post by Permit »

ineptech wrote: post #61

I manage people and have some advice. Start with, "I'd like to be converted to full remote, what's the process for that?" The answer is probably "I don't know but I don't think it would fly." Insist that your manager ask up the chain for an official answer. If the answer is "nope", next say: "I'm not comfortable returning to the office for health reasons. Will I be fired?" This is two-pronged: a) it introduces privat…

> a) it introduces private healthcare decisions, a legally fraught topic they do not want to deal with.

Weaponizing (perhaps too aggressive a word) private health decisions feels weird to me. The OP didn't mention any health concerns, so I'm assuming you're suggesting he just hide behind fictitious ones?

Your advice is probably useful and could potentially get him what he desires, but it still feels off to me. It feels especially off because I've seen people use the same approach so they can avoid wearing masks in public.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#104

Post by yawaworht1978 »

pfp wrote: post #56

Don't negotiate. Dictate. I'm not joking either. I tried negotiating this (pre-covid), only to get a "final offer" of a measly couple of remote days etc. Being on the spectrum, I took their word at face value, found another job that does 100% remote, and put in my resignation. Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore, and they'd've rather had me remote than not at all. Had the new job n…

It depends, most digital companies will accept remote so long it is in the same state or country. But other countries and time zones are the demarcation line, so to say. Often due to taxes or regulations. Some FAANG plus Twitter have many forever remote positions, but with geographic limits.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#105

Post by andorxor »

caseybettle wrote: post #93

I said I am moving to another city do you want me to try remote working or not? Yes. Within 3 months my productivity rose 5x, I received a large raise. Who knew not working in the equivalent of a hog barn (yes I have debugged code in a literal hog barn, one very thin door from the action) would raise your efficiency?

Ha. I said I was moving to another city, can I work remote from there? No. So I handed in my notice and moved. And this was at a company that proudly trumpeted to the press that they were "virtual first" and has been remote since Covid started last spring.

Your mileage may vary with these conversations.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#106

Post by hparadiz »

jeromegv wrote: post #98
brianwawok wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean you literally picked the longest commute average in the country. My current commute is 8 minutes, hard to even get a podcast fired up.

And you literally picked the shortest one which isn't much better, the average commute is 53min per day in the US.

My commute on the east coast when I lived there was 15 minutes and I still hated it cause I had to actually get showered, dressed, and look presentable and then actually get on my bike and weave through some aggressive traffic to get there. It was only two miles but I'd still rather not do it at all.

And in the winter... It's just torture on the body.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#107

Post by heavyset_go »

brianwawok wrote: post #96
heavyset_go wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> boring commutes They're not just boring, they're dangerous and expensive, especially if you're commuting by car. Commutes are responsible for a 9.91% drop in hourly wages[1]. Using the media commute time, a commuter might spend close to 10 days per year just commuting, and in some cases it's closer to two full weeks[1]: > In the area with the longest average commute (New York-Newark-Jersey City), commuters are spen…

I mean you literally picked the longest commute average in the country. My current commute is 8 minutes, hard to even get a podcast fired up.

The median commute time results in spending almost 10 days commuting a year.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#108

Post by lotsofpulp »

b112 wrote: post #88
perl4ever wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Being on the spectrum I don't think that is why you made a suboptimal choice; I think that's why you incorrectly think you made a suboptimal choice. They might regret losing you, but that doesn't mean that good things would have happened if you tried to apply leverage before. The act of trying to force someone to do something, whether by (implied) threat, logic, emotional manipulation, or whatever, can mortally woun…

I think it's a shame, that negotiations have to end up so... damaging. There's no reason for it, but ego, and emotionalism on both sides. Saying: "I'm at a point where remote matters to me quite a bit, and I won't sacrifice pay for it. If you can't do it, I'll start applying with those who will, but I thought I owed you the honest truth." It doesn't need to be emotionally driven. Just honest truth. And I get that, as…

> There's no reason for it, but ego, and emotionalism on both sides. Saying:

That is what people say when they have options and can dictate terms. It only gets emotional when one party does not have the clear upper hand and so tries to “feel” the other party out to see what they will yield.

Re: Ask HN: How to negotiate continuing to work remotely?

#109

Post by andorxor »

camhenlin wrote: post #20

It seems like nearly all tech companies these days are moving to fully remote hiring. Tell your manager that you’re staying remote indefinitely or you’ll be beginning the search for a new job. You’ve already had the last year to prove how productive of a remote worker you are. Bonus for you: tech industry salaries are on a massive upswing at the moment - if you do get a shiny new remote job, chances are you’ll also b…

Not my experience at all. I've been having trouble finding remote jobs, much less remote jobs offering anything in the same universe as the 20 year Silicon Valley career I left behind.
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