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Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

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Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#991

Post by devbent »

pdonis wrote: post #970
paulryanrogers wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public schools contributed to my departure from the faith decades afterward. Public schools weren't indoctrinating anything. Rather they taught me to think critically, using proven methods, and avoid fallacies. Faith communities taught me lazy thinking, blind faith, bigotry, etc. Thank Prussia for a system that -- for all its faults -- provides a way out for kids born into religion.

> Public schools weren't indoctrinating anything. I don't know which public schools you went to, but the ones I went to (in the US) most certainly were indoctrinating all sorts of things. Nor has that situation improved since I went to school; if anything, in the US it has gotten worse. As for teaching critical thinking, some of the teachers I had in public schools did that. Many others did not. And I think I was amo…

> I went to (in the US) most certainly were indoctrinating all sorts of things.

Like what?

That people should be treated with respect? Or how about that literacy is important?

That slavery was bad? Or how about that lesson plan on how the Holocaust was a really bad thing. Maybe it was that time that schools taught that we killed a bunch of Native Americans for their land.

My (public) schooling was rather politically neutral to be honest, but using a banana they did demonstrate how to put on a condom and they talked about STD and pregnancy prevention. One may consider that "indoctrination" but last I checked the "abstinence only" crowd kept getting pregnant out of wedlock at a higher rate than teenagers who were told how to actually prevent pregnancy.

Or maybe people are upset that public schools make such outrageous statements as "some kids have two fathers or two mothers at home."

Which is a fact, since same sex marriage is now the law of the land as ruled on by the supreme court.

Or how about the outrageous statement "some people change their gender". That does indeed happen.

Saying stuff that is true, but that makes some people uncomfortable, isn't indoctrination.

Meanwhile other countries make children memorize speeches by the country's "president for life". That is indoctrination.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#992

Post by alexvoda »

humanrebar wrote: post #834
petsfed wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you pick the subject, there's a hot-button issue. Could be evolution in the science side of things, the legacy of slavery or colonization in the history side of things. Math is generally pretty safe, although I do see a steady stream of "I'm so glad I'm homeschooling my kids, I can't believe what $currentEducationalBogeyman is trying to pass off as education" when presented with some way to understand math th…

> It's also unsteady ground, as the Bible should be study as literature as well as religious tome, but that can lead to kids thinking about the humans who wrote the bible and what rhetorical outcome they were reaching towards. This is where public schooling is hypocritical. There are various forms of education about race, gender, etc., but almost no mandatory education on religion? I'm not saying indoctrination, but…

I very much agree with that. Unfortunately that idea is antithetical to most religious people because most religions claim that they are the only valid religion.

Teaching a kid about the variety of beliefs across the globe and the option of none is likely to make the kid less attached to the bubble of the religion of their parents.

In my country, religion is a 1h/week class from 1'st to 12'th grade and parents have to explicitly opt-out of it if they do not want kids to take part. Opting out is also slightly detrimental to a kids scores. What is thought is pure indoctrination and there is no element of multi-religious sociology and anthropology.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#993

Post by TheBigSalad »

zen_1 wrote: post #945
TheBigSalad wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK but that's virtually the same thing as public school.

Except with a much lower chance of kids getting bullied, assaulted, or shot

OK but you've just made a small school. It's hardly home schooling other than the teachers not being professionals.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#994

Post by Server6 »

gunapologist99 wrote: post #738
Server6 wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private schools have higher success rates because the kids are of a higher socioeconomic class. The teachers don't have to do the job of a social worker/parent. In other words private schools don't need to hire the best teachers, therefore they don't have to pay the best salaries.

> The teachers don't have to do the job of a social worker/parent. Right, so home-schooling just brings that full circle.

Not really. I'd argue raising a successful child "takes a village" with parents/teachers/community being legs of a stool. If any one of these legs is weak outcomes will be poor and they really aren't interchangeable.

Parents aren't teachers and teachers aren't parents. I'd argue that one of main problems with education right now is the dereliction of duty on the parents part, expecting the schools to pick up the slack - which they really cant' do.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#995

Post by daddylongstroke »

jbjohns wrote: post #926
ARandumGuy wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true, but way more kids get sent to school then are home schooled, so that doesn't mean much on its own. The issue is that when a kid's at school, there are many people who may notice something's wrong. From teachers, school nurses, school administrators, and even other kids. This is by no means perfect, and many, many cases of abuse slip through the cracks. But it is something, which is more then many ho…

When I read these kinds of comments, I can't help but wonder: did you attend a US public school? I went to probably an above average number of public schools growing up since my parents moved around a lot. There were differences between the big city and small town ones but there was one constant: violence and abuse. How should I expect teachers to notice a child being abused by parents when they turn the other way to…

Thank you for stating the truth. No, if anything, the schools have gotten only worse from the statements we hear and behavior we see of our kids' public-schooled friends. I'm amazed at how normalized social abuse is in public schools in the US. When I talk to other parents about my amazement, they just stare, blink, and respond with "I don't think it is a big deal. This is how we all talk and treat each other.". :-O My wife and I have home schooled our kids from their educational beginnings because of how bat-shit crazy and anti-social public schools were and continue to be.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#996

Post by daddylongstroke »

watwut wrote: post #334
brodouevencode wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For this anecdote I can provide you with about 20 anecdotes that are the complete opposite in nature. There is no regulation, but does there need to be? Homeschoolers take the same standardized tests as everyone else - that's about as regulatory as it needs to be (and even that's questionable).

Homeschooling famillies do not do the same tests. And especially families whose kids are less likely to ace those tests will avoid them when they are voluntary.

In most states, they absolutely do the same tests. We are, most often, required to by the state. The tests are provided (mostly) by the same two companies that provide the testing materials for the majority of end of year public school testing.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#997

Post by dragonwriter »

brodouevencode wrote: post #29
303uru wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, that's one model. The underlying problem is the completely unregulated nature. Similarly, there is household in my neighborhood that home schools. The kids (all 8 of them) never leave the house. They have a 8ft. fence and 1 acre yard where I assume they get some outside time. No one visits. Only dad is allowed to talk to anyone and when he does it's extraordinarily weird.

For this anecdote I can provide you with about 20 anecdotes that are the complete opposite in nature. There is no regulation, but does there need to be? Homeschoolers take the same standardized tests as everyone else - that's about as regulatory as it needs to be (and even that's questionable).

> Homeschoolers take the same standardized tests as everyone else

Varies a lot by states. Some states have no assessment requirement for honeschooled students at all, some have a requirement to keep a portfolio which may or may not be reviewed, some have an standardized testing requirement with more flexibility and lower frequency than public schools, and some have homeschool students take the same standardized tests as everyone else.

https://education.uslegal.com/homeschooling/homeschooling-la...

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#998

Post by dragonwriter »

colpabar wrote: post #84
rjbwork wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just not the case. In many states it's nearly completely unregulated, and the home school lobby is working diligently to strip even those regulations.

You didn't answer his question - why are regulations on teaching your own children in your own home so necessary?

Because children aren’t parental property and their education is a obligation parents have to them, not a service for the benefit of the parent. Standards for education of children in the home are needed for the same reason as other standards for care, conditions, and treatment of children in the home are.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#999

Post by Teever »

prewett wrote: post #717
Teever wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the purpose of religion is to align yourself to the highest aspirations why do so many large religious organizations get caught up stuff like this: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mormon-church-ensign-peak-whist...

Why do we fail to live up to our own personal standards? Is it a surprise that a large group of people fails to do what even the best person fails to do? You get all kinds of people in a religious group: the legalists, the people who think they believe but actually have a higher priority, the immature people, and the mature self-givers. Legalism has inherent contradictions that can easily end up treating people poorl…

It's not about my standards, it's about the standards of society and the organization.

These are crimes, from an organization that purports to be intrinsically different and better than other organizations.

So be better.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#1000

Post by throwaway2203 »

RoyalHenOil wrote: post #956
throwaway2203 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my thing, like what right does a public school have to regulate when I can and won't send my kids to school? If I decide to take a trip abroad for a month, that's on me... why do i have to worry about truancy court and CPS breathing down my neck?

Why should you have to feed your kid when they're hungry? Why should you have to make a space on your home for them to sleep and be warm? Why should you have to get them medical care when they are sick? Why can't you just do anything you want, regardless of the effect it has on your dependents?

First of all those are primal needs and independent of schooling. Schooling is a far more personal choice.

Second, I do all those things because it's my responsibility, not because the state will come after me if I don't.

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