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Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

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Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#961

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest US public school horror story is how we have taken a great instrument of social progress and decimated it. Public schools in countries where schools are treated well have phenomenal success. US schooling has been taken over (at the level of the state legislatures; blame goes to state Congress not to the schools) by companies selling "achievement" test. And also by charter schools whose success is based on…

If you look at actual numbers, school funding has never been higher. "Public schools in countries where schools are treated well have phenomenal success." How do you measure such success? There's standardized testing but you don't seem to like that.

Where do you think those funds go?

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#962

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that the only relevant question here is how home schooling compares to public schools when it comes to “horror stories.” And there certainly aren’t a lack of public school horror stories…

Excuse prior rant. New rant beginning here: The real public school horror story is that today, in America, a "good school" is defined as one where your child won't get shot. I leave the rest of the rant as an exercise to the reader.

Getting shot is random in America schools. A good school does not have metal detectors and drug dogs

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#963

Feels like there is a big homeschooling article once every other week here and a whole slew of parents saying, "We homeschool and its great and our kids love it" and then a bunch of adults saying, "I was homeschooled and it was not great, and I did not love it" Regular schooling isn't ideal. But homeschooling is a pretty major reaction to that, and it shouldn't be done without serious consideration for the non-zero c…

Yeah, I have definitely run into other formerly homeschooled students who really enjoyed it. Usually they had some choice in being homeschooled (either requested it or were given a yearly option to opt out). I myself would say I had a mixed experience. I did well academically because my parents prioritized academics and had college as a strong goal for me, but the religious indoctrination and utter lack of social experiences was awful for me. It also seriously strained my relationship with my mom, who did not manage her chronic illness, extended family issues, and homeschooling me well. Another family I knew had a 16 year old who could barely do 5th grade level math, a girl my age who couldn't read, and two more kids who were also going to be 'unschooled' by their IMO neglectful mother.

HSLDA has successfully lobbied against even tracking if a child is homeschooled, so there is no way to truly statistically tell which experience is the representative one. All you get are anecdotes, mostly from the parent's point of view.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#964

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in my country the homeschooling is ballooning as parents don't want the LGBT stuff and DQST forced on their kids but also don't want to be accussed of being a bigot when they raise issue with it.

Guy, this is a made up problem.

I don't have kids so I don't know but I know lots of people with kids and it is concerning enough to them that they homeschooling or pod learn. Even a lesbian couple with adopted and biological children are freaking out about it.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#965
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think possibly the worst place to learn and practice social skills is from other kids who are just as in the dark as you are. In my experience a home schooled child is significantly more likely to be good at social skills than a public schooled child. They are also adept at navigating adult conversation and social situations much sooner.

>They are also adept at navigating adult conversation and social situations much sooner. And they are often worse at navigating interactions with children who are not homeschooled (at least I was). Specificity is king.

Same here. And expecting us to just immediately make up the gap in college is... optimistic at best. Going from having your every interaction determined for you by your parents to being expected to arrange your own social calendar is a huge leap. And that assumes your parents actually let the leash slip at all in college. Mine certainly didn't let me stay in a dorm or stay after classes to socialize. Not if I wanted them to fill out my FAFSA, anyway.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#966
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think possibly the worst place to learn and practice social skills is from other kids who are just as in the dark as you are. In my experience a home schooled child is significantly more likely to be good at social skills than a public schooled child. They are also adept at navigating adult conversation and social situations much sooner.

home school kids arent locked in a cage. There's all kinds of social engagement activities available to home schoolers, i would argue even more than public school. The social isolation rumor of home schoolers is totally unfounded in my experience. Maybe it was true 30 years ago but it's certainly not true for school age kids toay.

This varies widely, and there just isn't any method for tracking kids whose parents DO isolate them, though. And it isn't just monstrously abusive parents who undersocialize. My mom loved me and made sure I got a good education, but she was a paranoid woman with chronic health conditions that made driving me to friends impossible for her. My dad just figured he was there to make the money and left educating and caring to the woman.

There was a stretch between 14 and 18 where I didn't see anyone other than my mom and dad. Oh, I made small talk to the grocery clerk once a week. Frankly, it was appalling emotional neglect, and my dad has apologized for not stepping up to fix it. My mom remains in denial that it was even a problem.

And meanwhile, anytime someone brings up homeschooling there's always a ton of people saying socialization can't possibly be a problem. Usually people who weren't homeschooled themselves, of course.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#967

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest US public school horror story is how we have taken a great instrument of social progress and decimated it. Public schools in countries where schools are treated well have phenomenal success. US schooling has been taken over (at the level of the state legislatures; blame goes to state Congress not to the schools) by companies selling "achievement" test. And also by charter schools whose success is based on…

If you look at actual numbers, school funding has never been higher. "Public schools in countries where schools are treated well have phenomenal success." How do you measure such success? There's standardized testing but you don't seem to like that.

If you look at actual numbers, spending on education in the US is dwarfed by other spending (such as defense) to an extent that it's inconsistent with our stated values.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#968

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where the hell is all this money going ? It's certainly not to teachers, whose salaries have barely changed[1] when adjusted for inflation. Is it going to real estate costs? Technology costs? Administration? What? [1] https://www.statista.com/chart/20979/public-school-teacher-s...

The 50% in 30 years is not inflation adjusted. So both of your graphs almost match without inflation.

It actually is inflation adjusted.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#969

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that the only relevant question here is how home schooling compares to public schools when it comes to “horror stories.” And there certainly aren’t a lack of public school horror stories…

The biggest US public school horror story is how we have taken a great instrument of social progress and decimated it. Public schools in countries where schools are treated well have phenomenal success. US schooling has been taken over (at the level of the state legislatures; blame goes to state Congress not to the schools) by companies selling "achievement" test. And also by charter schools whose success is based on…

The narrative of social progress, unfortunately, is a fantasy.

Public schools were created in the US to indoctrinate catholic kids - the “unwashed masses of Irish papists.” It was an oppressive institution from the start. They were designed with the same architecture as incarceration systems from France and to this day are mainly serviced by the same companies that service our prisons.

There have been so, so many attempts to recast public schools in the image of our aspirations - most notably Teach for America. I count many of their graduates among my edtech founder friends.

For those of us that have given a portion of our lives to improve these systems, the reality is heartbreaking. Public education is a callous political football whose primary purpose is to make sure children are being babysat so their parents can work. Genuine progress can be made but will be snuffed out by the well oiled grinder for government funding and political promotions.

Administrators determine our children’s future, not teachers, parents, or children. Any of those three would be better.

Yes, there are bright spots. But the vast majority of school systems destroy the aspirations of well-intentioned, newly educated teachers within a couple years. Most teachers leave the profession after less than a decade in it.

The best researchers I’ve found have all reached a stunningly simple conclusion on why better funding does not improve outcomes - students are living in intense poverty. Many students are homeless. Many have no safe place to sleep.

The reason homeschooling is rising is because intelligent, caring parents can give their child a better education simply by not subjecting them to the bizarre social experience that has become most public schools.

The exception to that rule is the proof of what matters - a community of parents/guardians who come together and support a mutual learning center with caring educators.

Co-op, private, public, they all work when you have that.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#970
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A school-like environment that doesn't indoctrinate their children in values that the parents disagree with, which is what would happen if their children went to public schools.

Public schools contributed to my departure from the faith decades afterward. Public schools weren't indoctrinating anything. Rather they taught me to think critically, using proven methods, and avoid fallacies. Faith communities taught me lazy thinking, blind faith, bigotry, etc. Thank Prussia for a system that -- for all its faults -- provides a way out for kids born into religion.

> Public schools weren't indoctrinating anything.

I don't know which public schools you went to, but the ones I went to (in the US) most certainly were indoctrinating all sorts of things. Nor has that situation improved since I went to school; if anything, in the US it has gotten worse.

As for teaching critical thinking, some of the teachers I had in public schools did that. Many others did not. And I think I was among the more fortunate students; many, as far as I could tell, had no teachers who taught them critical thinking.

Nor should the fact that US public schools are indoctrinating children be a surprise. As I have noted elsewhere in this thread, the people who set up the US public school system explicitly stated that indoctrinating children in the values the State wanted them to have (whether or not their parents agreed) was a goal of the system.

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