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Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

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Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#831

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have got bad news about that, the majority of abusive households send the kids to school and scare them into silence. Regulations against abusive households do exist but enforcing them completely would require a degree of inescapable surveillance that cannot exist.

That may be true, but way more kids get sent to school then are home schooled, so that doesn't mean much on its own. The issue is that when a kid's at school, there are many people who may notice something's wrong. From teachers, school nurses, school administrators, and even other kids. This is by no means perfect, and many, many cases of abuse slip through the cracks. But it is something, which is more then many ho…

I've seen this sentiment mentioned many times. That at school "abuse is more likely to be noticed". But how much more likely? How likely is noticed abuse to be resolved in a meaningful way?

As an anecdote I have close family member that teaches younger elementary school grades. They have told me about signs of possible abuse they've seen but no available recourse.

I'm also aware that school is a also an environment where abuse occurs. How can we say that we are not exposing public school children to more abuse per capita than homeschooled? There is a school in my neighbourhood that often has the police called in. Lockdowns over students bringing in knives and attacking each other.

It would be good to know these things if making an argument that pivots on abuse.

One last anecdote. All the experiences I can remember having that I'd consider abuse occurred in either: school, work or public transit. Some were bad interactions with strangers in passing, other were more chronic (generally at school).

While it is true terrible things can happen to kids at home, you need stats to compare this with the alternative before a stance should be taken.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#832

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I have basically the same opinion. It's not so much that I believe homeschooling is amazing in-itself, but rather that the public education system has so clearly deteriorated that it seems borderline criminal to subject your kids to it. The question for me, personally, is private school vs. homeschooling. If you can avoid many of the downsides of public education via choosing the right private school (and bei…

We didn’t go full home-school, but my wife and I intentionally left our city to go raise our kids out in a rural area so they could grow up in and around nature and with a nice, small school district that smokes anything we had back in the city. Better test scores, smaller classes, minimal major discipline issues. Prior to moving, our only “good” option for realistic schooling was putting our children in a local Cath…

> For the life of me, I can’t understand why anyone but a public-sector teacher being finally held to account would fight against giving parents options to place their kids in a school they see fit.

Because they want to indoctrinate your kids. A lot of teachers get into the profession because of a compelling social justice urge, much like a missionary from the church. When they are outside the public school system they are harder to reach.

Additionally, the more kids in the system equates to more political power for the teachers unions since they get to expand.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#833
My problem with homeschooling is that it's completely unregulated. This is a huge problem given that parental involvement is the single biggest determinant of children's success and growth.

Public school is treated like a huge daycare by many, but at least kids from negligent parents _had_ to go. My concern is that parents can now say "we're homeschooling" when in reality they're doing fuck all and, worse, are using their kids as house labor.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#834

Earlier quoted context omitted.

// other aspects of homeschooling were just a fig leaf over a whole lot of religious indoctrination. While this may technically fit the definition of "indoctrination", that's a pretty loaded way to describe what parents teach their own children. // they thought the public schools were too secular and were teaching "sinful" sciences like evolution. Really? In 2021, the hot-button issue among religious parents was evol…

I mean, you pick the subject, there's a hot-button issue. Could be evolution in the science side of things, the legacy of slavery or colonization in the history side of things. Math is generally pretty safe, although I do see a steady stream of "I'm so glad I'm homeschooling my kids, I can't believe what $currentEducationalBogeyman is trying to pass off as education" when presented with some way to understand math th…

> It's also unsteady ground, as the Bible should be study as literature as well as religious tome, but that can lead to kids thinking about the humans who wrote the bible and what rhetorical outcome they were reaching towards.

This is where public schooling is hypocritical. There are various forms of education about race, gender, etc., but almost no mandatory education on religion?

I'm not saying indoctrination, but education. Shouldn't everyone have a basic understanding of the history and tenets of Buddhism? Atheism? Hinduism? And so on? I think so. Even if the prism of importance is postmodern and focuses on respect fo others' self-identification, religion is clearly a major aspect in self-identification or we wouldn't treat the subject as controversial.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#835

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your children's future classmates wish you wouldn't keep your children from enriching their shared classroom. You might be just the kind of parent that the school needs to maintain a critical mass of involved parents.

Underrated viewpoint. Public schools are the only option for most people. Most people don’t have the financial ability to spend their time teaching their kids when they’re already working as much as they can to make ends meet. Heck, for a huge segment of the population, public school is the only place where their kids can even get a decent meal. If every parent that does have the time to invest in their child’s futur…

There are some crappy parents out there, or parents just doing the best they can after being delt a crappy hand.

Those parents who can't find the time / motivation to spend some time doing learning activities with their kids really shouldn't have applied for the job of parent in the first place.

If more parents took ultimate responsibility for their kids learning outcomes teachers would be under less pressure, and would have more ability to provide extra help.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#836

Earlier quoted context omitted.

// other aspects of homeschooling were just a fig leaf over a whole lot of religious indoctrination I was raised totally secular but I now understand that religion is about fundamentally aligning yourself to the highest aspirations ("what kind of man does G-d want me to be?") and even w/o actual faith, I am starting to think that's preferable to the current mode of "anything goes, you can be whatever you feel like an…

> the current mode of "anything goes, you can be whatever you feel like and there's no judgement of any of your actions." That doesn't match reality. Do you have kids in public school? Of course they judge actions—especially those that harm others. Sometimes that's called social-emotional learning, one of the things that Florida politicians have tried to make a boogeyman. We're certainly willing to punish kids based…

How do we judge harm? And over what timeline? Is a coach who drives the team in practice, making them suffer, in preparation for a game: is that harmful? The athletes are suffering! Is a parent harming their child when they ground the child for being late multiple times? Is that harm? The child is suffering! Is short-term harm in the interest of long-term benefit still harmful? What if you are unaware of the harm of your actions? Are you still justified?

"Do no harm" is a terrible metric to use for guiding one's actions. Libertarianism (which is the source of the "no harm" principle) is completely oblivious to the notion that humans are complex, interdependent, and not purely self-determined.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#837

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funding is not the issue. Private schools pay their teachers less and have higher success rates. Public schools are still teaching in a style suited for the Industrial Revolution. They also are a jobs program, so they can’t change to accommodate students if it hurts the employees.

Private schools have higher success rates because the kids are of a higher socioeconomic class. The teachers don't have to do the job of a social worker/parent. In other words private schools don't need to hire the best teachers, therefore they don't have to pay the best salaries.

So I think you hit the nail on the head for why public schools are generally awful. It’s precisely because they’re public. The public is full of dysfunctional families and homes with severe issues and people with terrible values. The kids bring these problems to school and the school has to spend considerable resources on them. And we’re supposed to want to surround our kids with this?

Unfortunately I know first hand having had to go to these schools until my parents finally realized their worldview was damaging their children.

Saying that, public schools in communities of stable homes with caring parents with good values tend to be just fine. They still have to deal with issues a private school won’t tolerate but they’re mainly functional.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#838
I often monitor centralized / decentralized waves in society, but this one caught me by surprise.

ps: I'm now wondering if this will have the same benefits as remote work. School can be wonderful but also massively damaging. Having ways to learn without bullies, or toxic teachers .. could make a big difference for many.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your children's future classmates wish you wouldn't keep your children from enriching their shared classroom. You might be just the kind of parent that the school needs to maintain a critical mass of involved parents.

My wife resents that her parents made her be this for the other kids in her class. This meant my wife had to do things like be the one to 'tame' the poorly behaved boy. Or she had to be the one to do extra work because the teacher would group her with the worst student. This is actually not preparation for adulthood. As an adult, when someone acts like a jerk, you ignore them and shun them and may report them dependi…

Lots of adults have underachieving coworkers, have no say in the matter, and have to figure out how to deal with that both professionally and emotionally.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#840
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are plenty of public schools, despite spending 10-15-$20K per student are also not teaching those things. THAT ought to be stopped.

Isn't it some comfort that you can see there is something to stop or change?

> Isn't it some comfort that you can see there is something to stop or change?

No, of course not. Is being helpless comforting to you? How often does anyone actually fix a serious problem with an institution? Sure it happens sometimes, but the best almost everyone can hope for it to muddle through being subjected to the problems.

The impulse to put homeschooling under the thumb of government officials is not comforting, because it would remove the agency of parents to respond to problems they experience or fear in the school system.

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