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‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

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Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#981

Post by rendall »

9dev wrote: post #663
givemeethekeys wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they are not starving: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQx1Qy5Z5fA

Maybe you place your trust in reliable media all over the world instead of random YouTube videos. Journalists are in Gaza right now, putting their life on the line to show you the ground truth—and you dismiss all that due to a channel called "travelingisrael"?

Are you familiar with the concept of ad hominem? It a logical fallacy in which one does not refute an argument directly - e.g. that if there were mass starvation, we would see groups of skinny starving people, and not singular children with genetic disorders that make them skinny - but rather one argues against the person making the argument (e.g the person making the argument is "random" and not a news source).

No. Do not "have faith" in media. The media gets things wrong constantly. Worse, it prioritizes narrative consistency and consensus over factual truth or ambiguity.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#982

Post by bufferoverflow »

vdupras wrote: post #419
bufferoverflow wrote: post #325

It will all stop when the terrorists return all the hostages.

That's an interesting point of view. If that is actually the goal of Israel right now, what if the Hamas executed all hostages on the spot, right now? Would Israel say "we have no more military objective, time to go home" or would they leash out in retaliation? I think we know what the answer would be. Because we know that, how can what you say possibly be true?

[dead]

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#983

Post by karim79 »

dismalaf wrote: post #911
sudopluto wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

terrorists? extremist groups? combatants? there is a large jump from hamas -> the entire population, including innocent civilians.

If you say some people who committed crimes are say, Americans, it means those people are Americans. Doesn't mean all Americans. So saying they're Gazans covers all the groups, it doesn't say all Gazans, just that the ones doing it are Gazans.

Alright, so based on that logic then:

"Israelis have created a man-made starvation with particular emphasis on blocking baby formula and other life-saving essentials from Gaza."

I'm not saying all Israelis. Just following your logic.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#984

Post by starik36 »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #919
starik36 wrote: post #900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, technically. But to this day, majorities support Oct 7th attack, both in Gaza and West Bank. That's like saying in WW2, we can't attack Berlin because there are innocent Germans who don't support Nazis. So how exactly do you propose to fight Hamas in an urban environment when it's blending in to the population that largely supports them (and only put on a uniform during propaganda events like hostage handovers)…

> to this day, majorities support Oct 7th attack, both in Gaza and West Bank Likewise, to this day, majorities of israelis support the israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestine. > That's like saying in WW2, we can't attack Berlin because there are innocent Germans who don't support Nazis. There's a difference between collateral damage and the israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestine. That said, the intentional firebombing o…

> majorities of israelis support the israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestine

That is simply nonsense. Provide a link to a poll stating that. You can't.

> difference between collateral damage and the israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestine

More nonsense. You are just throwing out words. There is no ethnic cleansing. Palestinians are still there - no one is kicking them out. In fact, their population increased. And since there is no ethnic cleansing, your point is moot. What is happening is a modern war, door to door fighting - with collateral damage. The situation is grim.

> So how exactly do you propose to fight Hamas >> That's not my problem

Of course, it isn't. You just like to throw big words and feel good about yourself, while providing zero solutions to anything.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#985

Post by LorenPechtel »

cypherpunks01 wrote: post #451
LorenPechtel wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because UNRWA gives the aid to Hamas, no fighting. GHF doesn't give Hamas power, Hamas attacks the GHF, Hamas shoots people trying to pick up food.

Right, except that all credible reports from the US government and senior Israeli military officials indicate there was never any large diversion of UN aid to Hamas. It was just a fog-of-war story made up by the Israeli government as a supposedly plausible reason to hermetically seal Gaza and prevent millions of civilians from receiving food. Sources: NYT: No Proof Hamas Routinely Stole U.N. Aid, Israeli Military Off…

Of course there's no proof, how could it be proven??

But what's undisputed is that it wasn't getting through. From the UN itself:

https://app.un2720.org/tracking/

Of what entered Gaza only about 10% made it where it was supposed to go.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#987

Post by nailer »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #760
solidsnack9000 wrote: post #633

For everyone in this thread hoping for a "Marshall Plan" or other functional aid regime for Gaza, keep in mind that the Marshall Plan began with defeat . It was only with Germany's unconditional surrender that the Allies could establish security and make a plan for the future. Hamas has had many opportunities to surrender and hasn't taken them. Hitler had many opportunities, as well; but chose not to. Surrender was n…

Any comparison between the Palestinians and Nazi Germany is absurd. It's like comparing the Native Americans to the Nazis and asking, "Why didn't they just surrender to the European colonists? They chose to fight to the end, so it's their own fault."

but Arabs colonised the Levant from their native homeland in the Arabian Peninsula.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#988

Post by nailer »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #757
JamesAdir wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point out to any action about the removal of West Bank arabs? There are an estimation of 2.5-3 million arabs there. There is actually a country for these people and this is Jordan. Since in '48 the arabs didn't accept the two state solution then, they are forced to live in a country which is not for them. Also, could you please point out where are they refugees from? '48 is 77 years ago, how is the 2nd and 3r…

The use of the term "West Bank arabs" is already a racist dog whistle. They're called "Palestinians." They come from Palestine. They're not going to willingly allow themselves to be deported to Jordan, as you want.

they called themselves Arabs before 1960. You’re probably aware of that since you keep commenting on this issue. Jordan is also Palestine which you should also be aware of before commenting on this issue.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#989

Post by oezi »

geysersam wrote: post #772
oezi wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we have learned again is that actions speak louder than words and that without action you can't achieve anything. Western nations aren't doing anything nor are middle eastern governments, nor asian governments. My takeaway is that the UN needs to be replaced with something without the 5 veto powers. Both Gaza now and Syria could have been prevented with peacekeeping missions if it weren't for the US and Russia a…

> Western nations aren't doing anything nor are middle eastern governments, nor asian governments. On the other hand, middle Eastern nations and Asian nations are typically protesting loudly, they don't protect Israel in the UN, they recognize the Palestinian state, they don't sell weapons to Israel.

From an outcome perspective there isn't much difference. Egypt and Jordan keep their borders ironclad shut, no middle eastern country is taking relevant numbers of refugees. None of them have been able to stop Iran from using Hamas and Hezbollah as proxies against Israel.

It usually easy to bash the west, but still I don't see anybody else doing much better.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#990

Post by pfannkuchen »

churchill wrote: post #888
pfannkuchen wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nit: Congo free state and Scramble for Africa were pretty different as I believe most Europeans didn’t realize and/or accept that sub Saharan Africans are humans at that point. They had an extremely different exposure to them (level and type) than we have today, and I don’t think we today can say whether we would have reacted differently to the Africans immediately post mass scale contact. Do people in the west today…

I think your point has some merits, but ultimately, intent doesn't matter: action does. if the West keeps funding Israel's genocide in Gaza, then yes, it's because they believe the Palestinians are sub-human. Haven't you seen the outpouring of support for Ukraine since they were invaded? Yet, Western nations are funding (not overlooking, but actively paying for) something worse - a continuous, ongoing genocide - and…

I disagree that intent does not matter when judging the morality of an action. I believe this is the supermajority view in the west. Which doesn’t make it right, of course, I just assumed we all thought that and if you don’t I’m not going to argue with you about it.
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