The case against masks at school • Hacker News Board

Re: The case against masks at school

#941

Post by elzbardico » Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 2:14 PM UTC

autoexec wrote: post #445

elzbardico wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

humm... no. Things don't work like that. On the contrary, exhaling through what is essentially is a sieve is only going to promote aerosolization.

Exhaling through a sieve still blocks the largest wettest particles, and limits the distance virus is forcefully expelled through the air. Again, it's not perfect, but infection is purely a numbers game. The more virus you can deposit on a mask, or a sleeve, or even a sieve, the less virus is in the air and the longer it takes for a virus to go from a mouth on one side of a room to a receptor on the other side of a r…

Do you know how aerosols work?

Re: The case against masks at school

#942

Post by mensetmanusman » Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 2:15 PM UTC

another_story wrote: post #903

mensetmanusman wrote: post #797

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taiwan isn’t suffering from near 50% obesity though…

That doesn't have anything to do with case count and lack of spread, though.

Obesity increases the risk of illness which contributes to spread.

Re: The case against masks at school

#943

Post by meragrin_ » Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 2:21 PM UTC

TameAntelope wrote: post #827

meragrin_ wrote: post #796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, no it would not. Most of it would be breaking thoughtless behavior. Johnny you have your fingers in your eyes again. Joan, did you wash your hands before and after smearing that lip gloss on? Etc... It is all pretty much worthless considering all the unmasked children gathered for lunch.

Then don't have children gather unmasked for lunch indoors? You're just bringing up other things schools should do...

> Then don't have children gather unmasked for lunch indoors?

That's going to go over really well when it is snowing and windy, just really cold, etc.

> You're just bringing up other things schools should do...

You're just proving you don't have a clue what problems other areas face.

Re: The case against masks at school

#944

Post by caddemon » Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 2:31 PM UTC

genewitch wrote: post #812

treesknees wrote: post #806

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been almost 2 years. Your point still stands, but it has not been 3 years of lockdowns and schools closing their doors.

Louisiana schools closed in March of 2020 toward the end of the month. In August/September they were virtual learning only for a while, and it was not good, or so I was told. Essentially, they got a "pass" for 2020 regardless of what their grades were, without ever stepping back into class or remote learning. We also had a massive hurricane and two smaller ones that year, and that had more people at home in October t…

I cannot find evidence of a single US school district that did not have an in-person option this academic year. As another commenter mentioned, it now makes national headlines when a school district needs to take a 1 week pause.

Also the original commenter was talking about early childhood development, not beuracracy. Everything kids learned from 9/2019 through 2/2020 shouldn't disappear because of what happened that spring. If it does our school systems are even worse than I thought.

You wouldn't say you are going into 30 years 2 months before your 29th birthday. And "no end in sight" makes 0 sense in the context of in person schooling, because the end of remote school is already in the rear view mirror.

Re: The case against masks at school

#945

Post by pcmoney » Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 2:45 PM UTC

jmull wrote: post #855

pcmoney wrote: post #475

Vaccines for Covid are available. Vaccines do not stop the spread of Covid. Vaccines do not stop you from getting Covid. Vaccines do reduce the probability of severe/fatal cases of covid. Masks are available. Most masks in most situations do little to stop the spread of Covid. Well fitted N95s are more effective. Getting vaccinated or wearing a mask is clearly a personal health decision. Vaccine mandates are ridiculo…

When you spread covid misinformation, you help people die earlier than they otherwise would. The fact is, the vaccines reduce the transmission of covid. Likewise well-fitted quality masks. So when you opt out, or encourage others to do so, there's an incremental harm to other people. To the extent anyone reads and is persuaded by you comments, people are being harmed. Hopefully, no one is, but I see from the response…

What misinformation am I spreading? I think you are misunderstanding me.

I am not saying vaccines and masks have no benefit. Vaccines have a substantial personal benefit and a more marginal communal benefit.

Mask done perfectly have a decent personal and communal benefit. However, masks are not done perfectly and never will be.

The question is should we have mandates? Should we have vaccine mandates along the lines of “get the vaccine or get fired?” for marginal and waning communal benefit. If so should we extend this marginal logic to other marginally communally beneficial prevention measures? Eg. Protests are spreader events. These hurt the community. Attend a protest and you’re fired. I don’t think either is reasonable.

In regards to mask mandates we are forcing kids to wear masks at school but we are not mandating adults wear masks at restaurants, bars, movie theatres, concerts, football games etc. It doesn’t matter if the kids had perfect mask compliance (and they dont) the exposure to adults is everywhere. Also mask mandates do not impact behavior much. So why do we have them for students? I think it is mostly because adults want security theater and are used to telling kids to do something they themselves are unwilling to do.

Re: The case against masks at school

#946

Post by pcmoney » Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 2:54 PM UTC

watersb wrote: post #902

pcmoney wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is endemic. Its everywhere. Its mutating. Humanity has never stopped the spread of similar coronaviruses and even if we could the death rate/risk is not bad enough to justify the cost (this isnt smallpox/polio) We have vaccines. They don’t stop you from getting it or transmitting it. They do lower probability of the vaccinated person getting severe/fatal covid. Clearly a personal health decision that should not be…

> Life goes on. (Me: triple vaxxed and have had Covid 2x) I can't agree with a lot of what you are posting here, but this totally got my attention. You've had all your shots, and had covid twice so far? Can you say more about that? How bad was it for you? My daughter had a mild case, weeks after 2nd vaccination, when she returned to college last Fall. She was ok. I think that if everyone could do what you've done, we…

Sure, first round was 2020 and pre-vaccines but positive PCR (had recently had surgery and needed negative PCRs to go the physical therapy) It was just a sore throat and some heavy fatigues. Symptoms for about 3 days but no cough, loss of taste, or fever.

Second round was omicron in December shortly after being boosted. Symptoms of cough, fatigue, and shortness of breath. Much more sever symptoms the second time but only for about 3 days. Also had contracted bronchitis right before so that probably contributed. Note: with the cold that lead to bronchitis I was nervous it was Covid so rapid tested 5x over 3 weeks. All came back negative, including 2 that came back right before and after a positive PCR. Anecdotally I have strong doubts on rapid test efficacy with Omicron (friends had similar experiences)

Re: The case against masks at school

#947

Post by nradov » Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 2:55 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #615

remarkEon wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not following your point. You say this is expensive and hard, but so what? Isn’t that what you do when a pandemic occurs? You also point out we have a nursing shortage currently (we did before the pandemic as well). Isn’t that a reason why we should do this? Kill two birds with one stone … solve the prior nursing shortage with a training and hiring blitz.

Expanding hospitals, building new hospitals and training scores of new highly-skilled staff all takes many years. In addition to being extraordinarily expensive. And then what? The pandemic ends and we have incredibly expensive facilities sitting empty (but still incurring maintenance costs forever) and a surplus of highly-trained staff who cannot find jobs because 98% of the time, we simply don't need any more capac…

Training staff does take time but new hospitals can be built quickly. The Chinese built an entire new hospital in 10 days. It probably isn't as good as a modern US hospital, but it's better than nothing.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-s-coronavirus-hospi...

Re: The case against masks at school

#948

Post by nradov » Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 2:59 PM UTC

TameAntelope wrote: post #827

meragrin_ wrote: post #796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, no it would not. Most of it would be breaking thoughtless behavior. Johnny you have your fingers in your eyes again. Joan, did you wash your hands before and after smearing that lip gloss on? Etc... It is all pretty much worthless considering all the unmasked children gathered for lunch.

Then don't have children gather unmasked for lunch indoors? You're just bringing up other things schools should do...

The lunchtime outdoor temperature in Minneapolis today will be about 6 °F. Where would you suggest that children eat lunch?

Re: The case against masks at school

#949

Post by pibechorro » Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 3:12 PM UTC

taylodl wrote: post #304

General observation from reading the comments - the folks on HN must not have many friends working in medicine for if they had they'd realize those friends are swamped and burned-out. They'd also know that pretty much the only condition we're treating nowadays is Covid. Surgeries are continuing to be postponed - including surgeries that can lead to worse problems down the road such as removing cancerous tumors. And i…

Firing front line responders, nurses, etc for refusing the mRna shots backfiring?

Not encouraging preemptive healthy lifestyles backfiring? (Obesity, etc)

Things will work out just fine.

Re: The case against masks at school

#950

Post by aerovistae » Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 3:32 PM UTC

TameAntelope wrote: post #233

sfotm wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't really true, regardless of whether you like masks or not. There have been one or two level changes with respect to how much risk you're introducing to those around you as well as the personal accountability of those you'd affect. It's not surprising that different people have different tolerances for these risks. Even without the above factored in, this is sort of like saying that not using your turn signa…

It's not about individual risk, it's about collective risk, and honestly it's quite selfish to consider the COVID risks only with regard to yourself. And Omicron has made it so the risk profile is effectively the same as when this pandemic started; you will get it, you will be contagious for a time, and you will infect others. By looking at that risk and accepting it, you're throwing away the work you've previously p…

How long will you wear a mask for? Will you wear one in 2028 when Covid is still a circulating illness? Will you wear one in 2046? Are you in favor of mask-wearing in the permanent absence of covid to protect others from the flu, just in case you have it but haven't realized yet?