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The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

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Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#941

Post by thehappypm »

rsync wrote: post #886
AstralStorm wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a problem though. Without access to source material of any real journalist (not a reporter) you have no way of knowing whether whatever they're saying is true. Marketplace of ideas is just measuring the average of views at best and fringe views may on occasion be valid, or not. It is also gameable by promoting "truthy" or plausible explanations with no data behind them. In this case, it is irrelevant what th…

"In this case, it is irrelevant what the source of the pandemic was ..." ... "Leak of a natural or modified virus would be just as bad. Same if it's from consumption of rare animals sent from remote places or research on the samples from them." I disagree. I actually think "lab leak" is better and more optimistic news than a natural outgrowth or animal consumption, etc. Lab leaks are a problem we can fix - probably w…

The world of easy travel may be doomed either way.

If it's a lab leak? The rhetoric may shift to blaming China and trying to punish them (especially in more conservative circles). New Cold War, more Iron Curtains, less freedom of travel.

If it's just globalization making things risky? Then maybe we can't let people fly from Wuhan to Bergamo for public health reasons. Less freedom of travel, for an entirely different reason.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#942

Post by [deleted] »

jcrawfordor wrote: post #205
harryf wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying it's shady to provide that funding. What I'm saying is it demonstrates conflict of interest. Last year in May 5 2020 Fauci dismissed the idea that the virus came from a lab that his own organisation was providing funds to - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anthony-fauci-wuhan-lab-coronav... Whether or not anything shady was happening, the conflict of interest is clear.

Would Fauci have even known? Budget numbers say NIAID clears around $5 billion in grant funding per year and this grant was more at the $100k per year level. Another source shows that NIAID receives around 3,000 grant applications per year and that's just in two of their multiple grant types. It seems most likely to me that the grant was approved and funded by a subject-area committee without Fauci being involved at…

[deleted]

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#943

Post by rorykoehler »

coupdejarnac wrote: post #523
justicezyx wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does no one else remember the videos out of China with people laying dead in the streets, falling over as they walked, convulsing behind the steering wheels of cars? Could you provide a link? I never saw such video on YouTube.

There is a guy on r/China I think who archived a bunch of disturbing videos from last January /February. I think I saved them or links, but I'm away from my computer. Will update if I find it.

Please share

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#944

Post by throwaway67435 »

A sideshow is what’s happening on Wikipedia. There’s a cabal of editors that shut off any mention of a lab leak, using mis-applied content guidelines designed to protect against quack medical advice. Talk pages are constantly purged, which is a sign that someone desperately doesn’t want a consensus to form. Anti-pile-on policies are used as a way to ignore criticism.

Are these Chinese government agents? Overzealous students studying in North America? Gain-of-function grad students protecting their turf?

There were a smaller number of suspicious accounts that overzealously pushed the lab leak, possibly agents of Taiwan, but these were banned swiftly.

With the anti leak thought-policing editors, normal editors are intimidated into silence. Despite all the talk of dealing with organized manipulation around the 2020 election, the foundation hasn’t bothered intervening. Normal amateur editors don’t have the resources to push back against zealous state-actors.

This issue could pose a devastating blow to Wikipedia.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#945

Post by dqv »

Rapzid wrote: post #931
dqv wrote: post #878

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe you're putting me in a position to have to even slightly defend Trump. You are giving Trump supporting whack jobs credibility when you give deference to this sort of revisionism. The news articles that require the most analysis are the ones of which we are least critical ( i.e. those which are prima facie the most factual), yet here you are with a lazy article about Rush Limbaugh. I mean come on, we k…

Fuller video of what lead of to those questions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3BRQ7scbqc . Trump was already starting to spread the FUD about the virus situation being China's "fault" and strongly insinuating it was somehow malicious. Also, in that CNN article video he is asked a question not asked in the above video. A very direct question and NOT leading: > What gives you I high degree of confidence that this o…

Great, I don't have to do any Trump apologetics now. But while you were busy adjudicating what Trump did or didn't say, you forgot about what CNN was doing in its article - the most important part (and CNN isn't the only one who did this). They created an association of the WIV lab leak theory with Trump, suggested he was in disagreement with the intelligence community, and wrapped that up with denials of the lab leak theory.

Let's not go into semantics and technicalities here - journalists know how to write and they know how to clarify. They had ample opportunity on air and in writing to say something to the effect of "while Trump is a fucking idiot and mischaracterizes the lab leak theory, we can not rule it out". Instead they manufactured an association and a denial instead of separating the valid parts of the theory away from what Trump claimed.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#946

Post by rorykoehler »

pjc50 wrote: post #738
mc32 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other astonishing things is the sudden about face by the media. I'm glad they allowed themselves the liberty of looking at alternative origins. But... they were SO adamant and complicit in any discussion about alternative theories being shut down under the guise of conspiracy, Trumpism, anti-China, etc. (These are the same people who have no qualms about attributing anything to Russia even if evidence is thin, so…

This is the Iraq war situation all over again, by which I mean the same people (literally) are pushing the same angle through the same media outlets in the same way. https://www.wsj.com/articles/intelligence-on-sick-staff-at-w... : Michael R. Gordon, WSJ on the "lab leak" https://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/08/world/threats-responses-i... : Michael R. Gordon, NYT on "Iraq WMD" The media are, in these cases, bad, but only…

It was obvious wmd angle was bs from the start. The was never any concrete evidence for it. None. It just appeared out of thin air. Hearsay. It was also obvious that the lab leak hypothesis is worth investigating because there is active documented research on these viruses happening there. I don’t think they are comparable.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#947

Post by rorykoehler »

rayiner wrote: post #329
version_five wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, the only really horrible thing is the way that anything other than the mainstream version of events was treated. I think there are different plausible theories, and I'm not surprised they have different adherents that are mostly all motivated by something other than a pure quest for the truth. That's life. If this was e.g. a civil or criminal trial, you'd see the same thing. The only difference is, in a trial,…

That’s another symptom of the same disease. People have an idea that “trust the experts” can replace all the messy, gross, and often wrong processes we have developed to deal with the fact nobody can be trusted. Trusting scientists involved in gain of function research will neutrally investigate the origins of the pandemic is one manifestation of that conceit. So is trusting fact checkers and review panels to decide…

Tbf independent researchers got us to the point we are having this discussion. We just took a detour because the institutions failed us.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#948

Post by rorykoehler »

concordDance wrote: post #626
member492 wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is even more shocking is that the mass media and big tech have done everything to keep this covered. Most of the revelations are nothing new if you read alternative news sources where true journalism still exists. Big tech and mass media are now more like China state television, they decide what and how to tell you something based on what they want you to believe. The greatest threat of our times is not the Coro…

The reason that big tech is corrupted is mass media and activists (here I mean anyone who pushes for their company to do good things rather than just neutral thinhs) within the big tech organization. The (non-rightwing) news orgs had constantly been going on about the evils of Trump and racism and fake news and virus misinformation how very bad it all was, the activists were convinced (because most people don't know…

Trump dug his own grave. He is the boy who cried Wolf.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#949

Post by rasz »

sgt101 wrote: post #577
wombatpm wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When China started welding doors on high rises to keep people in, that was the signal to take it seriously-despite what the WHO was saying

This did not happen as far as I can discover - there were stringent lock down measures in Wuhan, but they came very late. In fact six weeks into the outbreak the Wuhan authorities held a party for 40k people. So - in fact it was the opposite, they treated it recklessly, which makes me think that they didn't have much to hide (until they realised that they had recklessly let it, whereever it came from, get out of cont…

Clearly those are cut scenes from Resident Evil, the one that came out in February 2020 https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1703503427818

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#950

Post by rorykoehler »

bumbada wrote: post #791
bartart wrote: post #2

This is the most shocking article I have ever read in my life. I'd ask everyone to please read it because it is incredible. One thing I did not realize is that US researchers who conducted gain of function research tried to downplay and discredit the possibility of the virus originating from the wuhan lab. There was an anti-lab theory Lancet statement signed by scientists, and "Daszak had not only signed but organize…

There is a very important thing to mention: Both the US and Europe depended on China's supplies in order to fight the virus in the first place. Guess what Chinese officials did? They called each individual country prime minister and said: Your news reporters are criticizing China, it seems like you don't want supplies. So politicians will talk with the boss of the news Media and explain the situation, the journalist…

The world will reorganise after this for sure.
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