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Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

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Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#941

Post by makomk »

pathseeker wrote: post #320
Balero wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The experience I have had with UK unions is very different from this, and the other descriptions of unions in the US. I only had a few interactions with them (in a union capacity, the rep was a normal worker as well). These were things like: Getting some new equipment for the break room (kettle and mugs), pushing some new health and safety process (developed alongside the company), and then the yearly meeting, which…

>Whereas in the US there are many that have a more antagonistic relationship, which is just weird to me. It likely stems from the fact that the birth of the unions in the US was a super violent affair (grotesque murders of both union organizers and union busters). All of the old unions born around that time were founded in an environment where the company was a hostile enemy you negotiated every minute thing with.

Not just those. One of the more powerful unions famously bombed the Los Angeles Times building and killed a bunch of journalists because it was opposed to unionization.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#942

Post by cynusx »

I can't help but think that unions are very similar to code smells, it's when the management of the company isn't able to maintain cooperation and trust with their employees. I would never work for a company with a union

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#943

Post by sokoloff »

alexgmcm wrote: post #917
MPSimmons wrote: post #861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. Fight open office layout (my opinion, may not be shared by everyone) This is, I believe, the biggest strike against unions. If the unions decide you don't get open offices, then that decision binds everyone, whether they wanted an open office or not. You just have to hope that the many tradeoffs you make are worth the things you get in return.

This is, I believe, the biggest strike against management. If the management decide you get open offices, then that decision binds everyone, whether they wanted an open office or not.

That's actually not (necessarily) the case (source: I'm management)

Having management make adaptations specific to an individual's preferences is a feature available in a management-employee negotiated arrangement that might be precluded or more difficult in a union shop.

As examples, I have colleagues working from remote locations, colleagues working in co-working spaces, colleagues working non-traditional schedules (by their choice, not mine). I can't see how having a union policy on work schedules and rules would have helped any of those employees and can easily see how they'd be harmed by having standardized work rules.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#944

Post by EnderMB »

cortesoft wrote: post #438
mdonahoe wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Athletes unionize" is one of the better arguments I've heard for why devs should. I'm curious to learn more about the origins of the players' union.

Part of the reason athletes unionize, though, is because they play for monopoly leagues; there are no competitors for the top leagues in most American sports, so it isn't like you can just leave and play in the other NBA if you don't like their practices.

There is more to athletics and sports than American sports.

Most European countries have a professional football players union, and their contracts are owned by the club, and not within a monopoly like with American sports. The same goes for referees, coaches, managers, etc.

Again, the amount of money these people are paid can be very high, and while many players don't use the union for things like negotiating pay, they rely on the union for other types of representation.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#945

Post by frockington1 »

zchrykng wrote: post #57
ughitsaaron wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully, New York is not a right-to-work state.

So you are fine with the majority forcing the minority to support something they don't want to support? Never going to get behind that notion myself.

Its the same state that brought Stop and Frisk laws to the main stream. New York government isn't known for caring about minority views

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#946

Post by ksred »

notSupplied wrote: post #203

Folks should really read this article to get more context on Kickstarter's history with unionization, it is truly bananas and not what you think: https://slate.com/technology/2019/09/kickstarter-turmoil-uni... - The first thing that jumped out at me was that the primary spark of conflict was NOT compensation or working conditions. - The main conflict was around a Kickstarter project "Always Punch Nazis", a project th…

This is exactly it. After scrolling through so many of the comments it's crazy to see the actual reason for unionising so far down the list.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#947

Post by abledon »

DoubleGlazing wrote: post #619
elicash wrote: post #379

1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…

> 1. Why do tech workers need a union? In my experience the normal dynamics of employer-employee relationships are broken in the tech sector. In most cases where employees have a grief with an employer it's usually due to a lack of something, be it wages, safety, job security etc. In the tech sector that doesn't apply. Wages are good, normal health and safety issues are non-existent and you have no problem finding a…

Reduced salary of 13% —- that 8 week vacation, 37.5 hr hard cutoff gov job is looking not too shabby (to run a bunch of fun side projects alongside )

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#948

Post by sokoloff »

Willson50 wrote: post #82
zchrykng wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are fine with the majority forcing the minority to support something they don't want to support? Never going to get behind that notion myself.

This is literally how democracies work.

True, but most democracies also have some kind of founding document that sets out broad limits on the scope of the democratic or representative powers of government.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#949

Post by lawnchair_larry »

claudeganon wrote: post #924
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #836

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. That’s more like saying we should join a union so we can put rules in place that say employers aren’t allowed to murder us. It’s already illegal, and people who don’t care about the law won’t care about a union agreement either. The same court battle and settlement process would result. Or worse, everyone would be forced to strike, and all employees are legally barred from working.

> No. That’s more like saying we should join a union so we can put rules in place that say employers aren’t allowed to murder us. I love that people are so ignorant of the history of labor struggle in the US that they don’t know that people actually did form unions to prevent their employers from murdering them. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_...

Before you call anybody ignorant, maybe stop and think about the last time a tech employer murdered people. That historical factoid is completely irrelevant when discussing solutions for today. Guess what, we don’t need to wear chain mail while riding a horse to work anymore either. Progress!

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#950

Post by sokoloff »

karatestomp wrote: post #253
iandanforth wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments like the above fascinate me. The emotional appeal of "choice" seems to have no end. You can employ it to fight unions, health care, public schools anything you want. Similarly if you can successfully attach "right" (as in "a right") to your rhetoric you can draw out pride, anger, indignation, all sorts of powerful emotions. I recently learned that Frank Luntz ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luntz ) is…

Weirdly, this kind of "freedom" is often freedom that's of zero or negative value to me. Take the "freedom" lost by switching to single payer healthcare or similar: oh, no, I don't get to rely on private insurance and deal directly with private medical provider billing departments anymore, and spend tens of hours fixing their mistakes and attempts to screw me every time I use medical care, plus all the time trying to…

The other side of this is "Oh good, now I can get my health outcomes managed by the same people and with the same level of customer service/personal touch as my Department of Motor Vehicles and will have literally no alternative but to take it." Arguing the worst case of either system and representing it as the most common case is rarely productive.
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