Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

vice.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

861–870 of 1001 posts

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#861

Post by MPSimmons »

yumraj wrote: post #706
elicash wrote: post #379

1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…

> 1. Why do tech workers need a union? 1. Fight ageism (every 20 year old today will grow up someday) 2. Fight open office layout (my opinion, may not be shared by everyone) 3. Fight for equal pay, discriminations of various sorts 4. Fight for reasonable share in success and against the massive differential between CxO and others' pay 5. Resist outsourcing where it makes sense ....... the list goes on ....

> 2. Fight open office layout (my opinion, may not be shared by everyone)

This is, I believe, the biggest strike against unions. If the unions decide you don't get open offices, then that decision binds everyone, whether they wanted an open office or not.

You just have to hope that the many tradeoffs you make are worth the things you get in return.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#862

Post by fogetti »

aty268 wrote: post #244

Absolutely pathetic for both sides. If you don't like your white collar tech job, go somewhere else. It's not factory work where you're paid way less to do the same thing wherever you go. You make yourselves and your company look weak in doing this. This is why the rest of the United States thinks tech is full of a bunch of entitled pricks.

I on the other hand think that the comment as yours is why the rest of the United States thinks tech is full of a bunch of entitled pricks.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#863

Post by fogetti »

pro-duct wrote: post #686
sjg007 wrote: post #669

Hospital doctors are unionized. Professors are unionized. Plumbers are unionized Dirt movers are unionized Police are unionized Figherfighters are unionized Public employees are unionized Teachers are unionized Actors are unionized the NBA is unionized the NFL is unionized the MLB is unionized the NHL is unionized And yet, software engineers should not be ?

It being a common practice isn't relevant to whether it is best for this industry and its workers. I'm not saying I disagree, but your reasoning just doesn't support your argument

I think you didnt fully understand the parent poster. The point is that in this thread many people are questioning the case for unions in software engineering and the parent comment responds to that. He just gave examples that unions protect all kind of workers, software work included, to make a point in case.

So it's you who seem to be without arguments.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#864

Post by manfredo »

yumraj wrote: post #817
sokoloff wrote: post #794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the most talented or hardest working engineers might rationally be opposed to equal pay measures.

Equal pay referred to between equally qualified men, women and other genders. Not clear why a talented and hard working person of one gender would be opposed that a similar person of another gender get same pay? It did not refer to people making unequal contributions.

> Equal pay referred to between equally qualified men, women and other genders. Not clear why a talented and hard working person of one gender would be opposed that a similar person of another gender get same pay?

Because there might not be an even distribution of people with certain skills. For instance, some point to the disproportionately large number of Asians in higher paying roles, and demand a form of equalization.

The issue is not that people don't believe in equality, it's that people don't have the same view of what is equal. In particular, some view equality in terms of equality of outcomes while others view it in terms of equality of opportunity.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#865

Post by sjg007 »

gpm wrote: post #834
kerkeslager wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, frankly, fsk free snacks. Pay me the money you were going to spend on snacks, and I'll choose whether to spend it on snacks or not. And since the money spent on free snacks was probably about $20/week, it won't be a significant consideration in any of my decisions. Bus service might be more significant in some places, but every place I've ever lived had that subsidized by the government, and long commutes are a…

Free snacks has to be one of tech companies most profitable endeavors. They've got a bunch of workers who cost them on the order of 1 to 4 dollars per minute. If they can spend a dollar on a snack to get 2 minutes more work out of them, they are making a killing. Snacks aren't part of your salary for being an employee of your company, they're your company trying to make as efficient use of your work time as possible.…

Meals Are supposed to be taxed but the irs doesn’t enforce it.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#866

Post by charlesu »

yibg wrote: post #824
eropple wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the engineering ethos of meritocracy You know what's pretty inarguably a real "meritocracy"? Professional sports players. And they're all unionized. Tech does not meaningfully or significantly adhere to any ethos of meritocracy; it is exactly as political as anything else. The part that really melts your brain is when you realize that the "meritocracy" myth is peddled so the people who don't realize they're bad at…

I agree that meritocracy is more a talking point than reality on the ground. I just mean, right now there is a disparity in income. Think of it as the income inequality that's common in many countries. In principle the tech world seems to agree this that setup; that some engineers should be paid significantly more than others. In my previous experience with unions in North America, incomes tends to be compressed towa…

Pay is more of a function of where you work than skill. There are mediocre engineers being paid $300K at FAANG and great engineers being paid $100K at Random Small Company. FAANG pays more because it's better able to monetize what its engineers are building.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#868

Post by PakG1 »

mprovost wrote: post #743
ChuckMcM wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech workers could have effectively used the leverage associated with unionization since at least 1984 during the semiconductor recession. Considering that the revenue per employee number is at an all time high, and the amount of money the company spends on the employee's working environment[1] is at record lows pretty much explains why this is going to be effective now when it wasn't before. There is also the issue…

And the amount spent on actual hardware must be at an all time low. The first lab I interned at in high school in the early 90s, every programmer had both a Symbolics workstation and a NeXTcube on their desk. (In a private office, of course). That represented a pretty significant investment. At my first "real" job, I got a Sun Ultra 5 workstation. These days you get the same Macbook Pro that everyone else can pick up…

That Macbook Pro is probably also much more powerful than your Sun Ultra 5 workstation though. Technology has improved. The important question is whether the stuff they give you enables you to effectively do your job or not.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#869

Post by nhumrich »

elicash wrote: post #379

1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…

> some issues are systemic

I would unionize just to get rid of open offices, for example

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#870

Post by WalterBright »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #584
elicash wrote: post #379

1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…

Tech workers could have effectively used the leverage associated with unionization since at least 1984 during the semiconductor recession. Considering that the revenue per employee number is at an all time high, and the amount of money the company spends on the employee's working environment[1] is at record lows pretty much explains why this is going to be effective now when it wasn't before. There is also the issue…

> There is also the issue of the "big" tech companies piling up cash rather than compensating their employees.

Big tech companies already do that in the form of stock options, grants, and employee stock purchase plans.

Post reply on HN