Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#931

Post by pnutjam » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 3:43 PM UTC

tachyonbeam wrote: post #888

pnutjam wrote: post #877

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you need an environment with better collaboration tools and people who know how to communicate. I was getting a slew of emails related to a project and after a bit of coaching I got most of these updates to go into a teams channel, where we can call out the interested part @user, and keep things in an easier to view format when we need to catch up.

Working remotely will never be as good for communication IMO. You can set up weekly one-on-ones over your favorite videoconference platform, but there's just so much you can't see being physically separated from your coworkers. At my previous job, I would bond with my teammates over lunch talking about random things, bouncing ideas, and I feel like we really were a team. We trusted each other. At my new, 100% remote…

I've always viewed work as means to an end, and that end is getting paid to take care of my family. I've made some good friends, but I've also been forced to tolerate some people I would rather not be around.

I also find that communicating through multiple remote channels is freeing. People aren't reading my body language to misinterpret what I'm saying. Requests and plans are more concrete and documented. People have to be more thoughtful about what they are asking for.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#932

Post by dkjaudyeqooe » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 3:47 PM UTC

ergocoder wrote: post #582

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For extra points, bite on a fake blood capsule beforehand.

Just say out loud "why can't I taste anything?" No need to invest in a blood capsule. Even with vaccine, there is 1-2% to contract covid. Even you can't die, you will still be scared to give it to your kids.

From reports, even if you catch it, the vaccine will attenuate the virus enough so that it's unlikely that you'll have a sufficient viral load to spread it to others.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#933

Post by tachyonbeam » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 3:54 PM UTC

pnutjam wrote: post #931

tachyonbeam wrote: post #888

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working remotely will never be as good for communication IMO. You can set up weekly one-on-ones over your favorite videoconference platform, but there's just so much you can't see being physically separated from your coworkers. At my previous job, I would bond with my teammates over lunch talking about random things, bouncing ideas, and I feel like we really were a team. We trusted each other. At my new, 100% remote…

I've always viewed work as means to an end, and that end is getting paid to take care of my family. I've made some good friends, but I've also been forced to tolerate some people I would rather not be around. I also find that communicating through multiple remote channels is freeing. People aren't reading my body language to misinterpret what I'm saying. Requests and plans are more concrete and documented. People hav…

> I've always viewed work as means to an end, and that end is getting paid to take care of my family

For most of us, it's also something we're being forced to do for 40-50 hours a week. We spend the best, more productive hours of the prime years of our lives working. So it might as well be something engaging.

People we would rather not be around, I agree. I unfortunately have to deal with some of these online as well though. Ideally this is something that can be discussed with one's manager so that we are no longer forced to work with said people.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#934

Post by dkjaudyeqooe » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 3:56 PM UTC

dougmwne wrote: post #683

okareaman wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They encouraged us to dress up for Halloween. A coworker came in with a cowboy costume including a toy gun. HR sent him home for bringing a gun to work. It was one of those you used to be able to buy at the 5 and dime. It might even have been his toy gun when he was a kid. It was absurd. As soon as it was time to do layoffs, they let him go. The family friendly atmosphere evaporates quickly when it's time to do layof…

I managed a Black woman. She was being harassed by an executive. I tried to intervene. It got worse. It was racist. I saw it with my own eyes. My boss saw it with his own eyes. She went to HR. I supported her. My boss supported her. I was fired. My boss was fired. No one stood up for us. Everyone cut contact with us. The "work family" people really don't get it.

That's shocking but not surprising. When people site "a feeling of belonging" for why they take full time jobs, it just plain creeps me out.

It's the inverse of family behavior: people use their power over you solely for their own benefit, usually in an immoral way.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#935

Post by coryfklein » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:06 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #809

ls15 wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private transport is also one of the biggest sources of greenhouse gas emissions. Reducing daily commute seems like a good way to improve our carbon footprint. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200317-climate-change-c...

The way to reduce carbon footprint is to put a zero on the price of gasoline, diesel, natural gas and all other forms of carbon-based fuel. A 900% tax should do just fine. Just nobody is brave enough to do it, because it would be political suicide. Even if you gave the money back to the people in the form of tax breaks and social programmes, it would still be political suicide.

It's not just political suicide, it's a game theoretical non-optimal play because any one country doing this only hurts themselves while not actually solving climate change. It only works if you have some large number of the top emitters agree to cap all together.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#936

Post by twobitshifter » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:17 PM UTC

Solvitieg wrote: post #138

coldtea wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. Compared to commuting (car+gas) and time-to-commute opportunity costs (to use for personal house tasks, side projects, self health)? I seriously doubt it.

Ones support of WFH seems to depend almost entirely on their distance from the office. The other stuff is superfluous.

I bought a house 5 minutes from my office but I still prefer work from home. I get to spend all day with my wife where I’m most comfortable.

I think some see work as a vacation from home and others see home as a vacation from work. If employees are spoiled with many benefits in the office like gourmet lunches, famous speakers, entertainment, and free massages, It makes sense to prefer working at work when your office is a luxury spa - but most offices are not like that at all.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#937

Post by disgruntledphd2 » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:25 PM UTC

dannyw wrote: post #889

someonehere wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Those looking to force everyone back into the office want to prove their worth in front of everyone else. I hate the idea of how some companies try and position the company as your second family. “No I’m here to do what I do to find my life outside of here.”

I know a number of execs at various tech companies and honestly this talk does not reflect my reality or experiences whatsoever. Execs generally optimize for impact and success, and while their paths may not always be correct, I don' really know a single one who primarily wants to prove their worth in front of everyone else.

What they tell people and what they are actually optimising for may be two completely different things.

Like, almost all of us are mostly unaware of why we do things, why would executives be any different?

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#938

Post by disgruntledphd2 » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:28 PM UTC

biztos wrote: post #839

swiley wrote: post #749

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's really not the goal of any FAANG company to encourage their workers to have families. Something that for one reason or another is more popular among younger women than men. This excludes women whether they want to admit it or not.

It also seems really self-defeating. Talent attrition is a major problem at any company, and people with kids are way more likely to stick around in their nice comfy jobs, regardless of their gender.

Yeah, this is why all the major SV companies give decent paternity/maternity even where not required by law. It's a really cheap way of getting your experienced/older employees to stick around.

Having left my FAANG a few years back, the only benefit that I actually miss is the paternity (even though I never had it when I was there).

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#939

Post by cm2012 » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

mFixman wrote: post #334

gnicholas wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The food/drink part could be the most of it. A Google employee enjoying free food and drink could save $60/day versus buying prepared food ($10 for breakfast, $20 for lunch, and $30 for dinner). If you drink much coffee or other beverages, that could be another $15/day. If you weigh this against spending an extra hour or two commuting, then it looks like a lousy bargain. But if you are like many people, and ended up…

A Google Employee working from home could save $200/day versus getting a fancy limousine to go to work. Nobody buys prepared food every day, and the costs of food are negligible for a Google employee.

My wife and I together spend about 3k per month on food. We're outliers but it surely happens.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#940

Post by cm2012 » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

theodric wrote: post #686

gnicholas wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The food/drink part could be the most of it. A Google employee enjoying free food and drink could save $60/day versus buying prepared food ($10 for breakfast, $20 for lunch, and $30 for dinner). If you drink much coffee or other beverages, that could be another $15/day. If you weigh this against spending an extra hour or two commuting, then it looks like a lousy bargain. But if you are like many people, and ended up…

What!? Who spends $60 a DAY on food? I live in Zürich, a very expensive place to eat, and my weekly total food budget for my wife and me is like $170.

I live pretty luxuriously and spend about $100 per day on food altogether.