Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

cbc.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

911–920 of 1001 posts

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#911

Post by mc3301 »

digging wrote: post #282
jyscao wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could endlessly go on about the economy/COL, immigration, crumbling healthcare, housing crisis, far-left ideology going mainstream, etc. But I could frame it much simpler than that - Canada, at least in cities of modest sizes and up, is rapidly transitioning from a high-trust to a low-trust society. An anecdote: my sister is more than 10 years younger than me, she's currently attending the same university as I di…

> One could endlessly go on... Yet, apparently one will instead sidestep the discussion entirely. Frankly the more you've tried to answer the question the less you actually answer it... I don't see how "rapidly transitioning from a high-trust to a low-trust society" or "she's got 2 bikes stolen ... this would be inconceivable to me during my time living in the same town" reflect failures in Canadian government at all…

>Has societal trust actually increased anywhere in the developed world? Sure, our governments have had their share of failures, but it would actually take an extraordinary vision and effort to increase societal trust as technology and population advance.

Japan. Again, depending on where in the country, but things like muggings and drunk driving have drastically decreased in the last 35 years.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#912

Post by SpecialistK »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #887
SpecialistK wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll quote my own comment on the trucker situation from a year and a half ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37450666 > It's a story of everyone going way too far. > The government(s) went way overboard with Pfizer proof of purchase QR codes to get lunch. Especially when uptake was 80%+ > They also went overboard by locking down again over the holidays when everyone was already catching the most contagious Omi…

I guess what I'm not getting here is this: the rage about the "everyone that went too far" doesn't seem to have extended to the people who actually did that. By which I mean our provincial governments, with their ad hoc dubious and last minute irrational responses. Specifically, Doug Ford who seems to have suffered not a bit in terms of support but enacted the most draconian of COVID restrictions and lockdowns, all a…

The protests in Ottawa and the two border crossings ballooned from just being about the trucker mandates (which really didn't impact that many people, since trucking industry reps reported rates of vaccination in line with the general population) to being an all-out protest against restrictions in general. I did see several protests in BC, including at the legislature.

What the federal government could have at least tried, in my opinion, was to be humble and release the tension. Trudeau's sanctimoniousness manifested itself too strongly and only escalated the situation, which he had seen coming earlier in the year by calling mandates "divisive" - presumably before polling numbers showed that Canadians are mostly a compliant bunch who didn't have much time for tinfoil hat types (research by UBC and VCH later showed that those already disadvantaged, such as the homeless, were vaccinated at a lower rate than the general population and disproportionately impacted by mandates. I'd love to link citations here but finding 2-3+ year old studies and articles is painful) Instead, several of Trudeau's statements at this time, including "do we tolerate these people" became rallying cries for the populists.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#913

Post by motorest »

csense wrote: post #34

Patio11 has some good coverage of Trudeau's handling of the trucker protest against the government's handling of COVID-19 [1]. Whatever you think of the truckers' position or protest tactics, any punishment for their actions ought to go through the laws and court system. Trudeau instead essentially told the banking system "You can't do business with those people, they're terrorists." Patio11's words of what happened…

> Whatever you think of the truckers' position or protest tactics, any punishment for their actions ought to go through the laws and court system.

Your personal opinion seems to be completely uninformed or misinformed, by the way you tried to frame it as something done to truckers instead of what it actually was: lifting a blockade.

It's even more baffling when taken into account the alleged motivation: COVID-19 restrictions.

> I'm not on the pulse of Canadian politics, (...)

It shows.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#914

Post by kubb »

sneak wrote: post #838
kubb wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t follow Canadian politics, and I don’t know that much about Trudeau, but having the capital full of honking, mad truckers, holding the government hostage for their demands to be met in a time of crisis sounds like an absolute nightmare.

Do we think it might be a little intellectually dishonest to equate a peaceful political protest with an armed hostage-taker? I think this is important regardless of whether you believe in their specific target of protest or not. The right to peacefully protest is very very important, and your feelings on a specific protest should be wholly divorced from the importance of preserving the right to protest in general. N…

Armed hostage-taker? It’s unfortunate you feel the need to misrepresent my position rather than address the real issue.

This kind of distortion suggests an agenda. Regardless how sympathetic you might feel towards the protesters and the politicians standing behind them, we should focus on honest dialogue.

It is a fact that the protest was done in a way which disrupted the lives of the residents and jeopardized their safety. The right to peacefully protest comes with a responsibility, and the context in which it’s done matters greatly.

For example, a counter protest by medical workers was cancelled when a state of emergency was announced. Look no further for a model of responsibility in public discourse. We should make sure the voices of responsible citizens are amplified, not drowned out by furious hostility.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#915

Post by rubatuga »

graeme wrote: post #554
swat535 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the court of law later determined that this was an abuse of power and unlawful. The fact that there is an existing law that can be abused does not negate the argument that abusing it is unlawful.

iirc the finding was that it was within the power of the province to handle the situation. The thing is, the province wasn't using the powers it had to handle it. The situation was obviously an emergency. You can't just let a convoy of heavy vehicles occupy your national capital indefinitely and say "not a problem, the provincial govt could theoretically handle this" I'm not sure the Quebec kidnappings would have met…

You could also drive around the bridge ...

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#917

Post by lazide »

zht wrote: post #840
throwaway94721A wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may have been an emergency in the first days with the honking. That largely stopped after a week or so. They switched to camping in front of the parliament with bouncy castles etc. The bridge that was occupied in another province was cleared. I'm really not under the impression that at the time they went in there was any emergency. It was ugly: Peaceful unarmed protesters in pedestrian zones with no trucks in sigh…

yea if you ignore the public shitting, public pissing, drunkenness, the harassment of locals, then yea, it was only bouncy castles, or stuff like this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42613957

If that is the worst complaint anyone had, that’s basically - any time there is a bunch of people around?

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#918

Post by lazide »

JellyBeanThief wrote: post #748
clwg wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps bad phrasing, it is an emotional issue having lived through it. I like to think that I don't live in a country ruled by a King but rather in a community of citizens who have collectively agreed on a way of doing things. This includes the right to express dissent against other citizens to whom we have delegated certain decision-making responsibilities. A permit isn't about seeking permission; it's about ensuri…

> A permit isn't about seeking permission Then they need to be renamed.

A permit is literally about seeking permission to do something from an authority - the absence of which, makes the activity illegal.

Re: Justin Trudeau promises to resign as PM

#919

Post by lazide »

tw04 wrote: post #866
selfmodruntime wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hesitate to call them protesters because I don't think they had a permit The notion that the common people need permission to protest is exactly why we are slowly, but surely arriving at oligarchies. The French are right. You don't need permission to show the ruling class who's king.

Except they weren’t protesting or inconveniencing the government or the oligarchs, just their fellow citizens.

Which seems to have inconvenienced the government enough they had an outsized reaction, yes?
Post reply on HN