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iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

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Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#901

Post by hbs18 »

wiseowise wrote: post #393
aikinai wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Installing whatever you want on your computer is not necessarily the natural state; it’s not even how the industry started and it’s not how any other industry or devices work. I also prefer to be able to do whatever I want with my own devices, but pretending like it’s an inalienable right, or a natural state, or has no disadvantages is disingenuous and not helpful to the debate.

> I also prefer to be able to do whatever I want with my own devices, but pretending like it’s an inalienable right, or a natural state, or has no disadvantages is disingenuous and not helpful to the debate. I own the freaking thing.

You won't get the cops called on you for sideloading apps onto iPhones. You aren't "not allowed to".

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#902

Post by Moldoteck »

zamnos wrote: post #851
adam_arthur wrote: post #815

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then industry players would build consensus around a new standard and adopt that into law? Would you prefer a world where browser vendors are all designing their own HTML and JS features independently rather than working off a common spec too? At a certain scale of adoption/societal impact, having a common set of agreed standards is much more important than fragmented "innovation". I would argue having a general and…

Lightning is a better physical connection than USB-C for phones. It's still reversible, but more importantly, it's more durable as there isn't a tongue inside to get broken. Before you reply saying that you've broken a lighting port, read carefully - I'm not claiming they're indestructible, just more resilient to needing to be cleaned out. If you work near metal and dirt or even just missoportune bits of fluff, they'…

Just to be sure, isn't lightning more liable to corrosion because contacts are 'naked'?

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#903

Post by Moldoteck »

lttlrck wrote: post #844
adam_arthur wrote: post #815

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then industry players would build consensus around a new standard and adopt that into law? Would you prefer a world where browser vendors are all designing their own HTML and JS features independently rather than working off a common spec too? At a certain scale of adoption/societal impact, having a common set of agreed standards is much more important than fragmented "innovation". I would argue having a general and…

That exact same waste/annoyance is going to happen during the USB-C to USB-next transition. And as it is it seems extremely unlikely that Apple wasn't already planning Lightning for iPhone...

I would agree, but i really don't know if this happens. top usbc can endure 120-240W and 40gigabits/s and I am not sure we've even hit the limits, some Chinese brands had mock phones with abnormal charging speeds (at least I'm about sure 120w). Like I can't imagine what new features some port could bring, that we'll want in a phone that fits in our pockets. The only thing changin imo is maybe a new fancy more durable form factor, but I can't say usb-c is that bad in this direction

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#904

Post by Moldoteck »

least wrote: post #803
leoh wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. Laws are immutable and can never be changed.

It doesn't really matter if laws can or can't be changed, the question is whether or not regulations imposing a standard on manufacturers on what kind of connector they put on their phone should exist at all.

Yeah, they could just impose additional tax for nonstandard phones, like +30% the price. This way if a company really wants a fancy port, they technically can do this, but likely will loose market share because of a big price compared to companies that follow standards

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#905

Post by dagorenouf »

tiedieconderoga wrote: post #735
dagorenouf wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usb-c sounds cool for now. But what about when a new port comes out and Apple can’t use it because the EU still mandates to use the old one?

They add another common standard, probably allowing manufacturers to choose between "old" and "new" for a little while. Similar to the switch from microUSB-B to USB-C. Budget phones kept using the cheap option for awhile, but eventually costs came down and people settled into the new standard. Not sure how it's done in the EU, but their legislature could delegate authority to make such decisions to an executive agenc…

I don’t know why everybody trusts government bodies to act fast and delegate authority as needed when it’s clearly not how things happen in the real world. The nature of government is to be slow, safe and long-term, not enable technological disruption.

For example the cookie law has made most websites significantly less enjoyable and everybody hates it and yet it has been stuck for years, no hope of improvement in sight.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#906

Post by heavyset_go »

hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #822
solarkraft wrote: post #761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents want to install applications of their choosing on their devices, but have no interest in knife-cooked dinner.

I find this hard to believe. Don’t get me wrong, freedom to sideload apps is a thing I believe in, but saying ‘it’s because my parents want more freedom’ is certainly a stretch.

It's about as much of a stretch as "actually my parents want an idiot phone"

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#907

Post by illiarian »

FrozenSynapse wrote: post #873
illiarian wrote: post #858

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why so shallow? It's called being pragmatic > will have to allow for more flexibility in what apps are allowed to execute Of course it won't. There will be 1% of apps that do something that HN crowd will perhaps care about. The rest will be apps that try to circumvent privacy and security, and/or chase their own goal. Note how much speculation there is about Meta going the side-loading route.

You underestimate the size of alternative stores. I bet there's more than 1% of users that use alternative stores on Android. That lightning cable on iOS is stupid, it only benefits Apple. Both changes are more than welcome, although I don't use iPhones (precisely for this reasons - closed ecosystem, lighting)

> You underestimate the size of alternative stores.

We both can both underestimate and overestimate the size

> That lightning cable on iOS is stupid, it only benefits

Apple has had exactly two connector types.

USB has 14 connector types. On top of that USB didn't even have a power delivery standard until after Apple shipped lighting, and didn't have things like fast charges etc. until USB-C.

And USB-C is in itself a big mess of a standard where you can't even be sure if a cable support features you need.

So, no. Lightning benefited Apple's customers immensely.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#908

Post by heavyset_go »

simooooo wrote: post #716
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is MacOS insecure then?

You could probably argue yes, since a 3rd party app isn’t validated in any way by apple

3rd party apps are validated via OCSP on macOS when the apps are launched.

A few years ago this was an issue, when millions of macOS users found that they couldn't launch any apps at all on their Macs, because Apple's OCSP servers were down[1].

[1] https://blog.cryptohack.org/macos-ocsp-disaster

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#909

Post by itake »

Temporary_31337 wrote: post #850
illiarian wrote: post #788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a programmer with 22 years of experience, and a member on HN... and even I don't care :)

Why so shallow? Don’t care for this particular feature, maybe but the broader fight is about ownership and control of the things you paid for. Sideloading is going to be nice for programmers as it will have to allow for more flexibility in what apps are allowed to execute

With automatic updates and SaaS business models, we have fully lost control of our devices.

There is no way for me to disable marketing push notifications on any device.

I can’t tell Facebook to remove Reels because it’s too addicting.

Firefox is my primary brower, but 5x per week I have to switch to Chrome because a website won’t let me login or is acting funky.

We have lost control of our devices

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#910

Post by kiicia »

WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #586
kiicia wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you seem to be completely sure that everyone loves and wants pwa newsflash: many users hate pwa, they prefer native apps

newsflash to your newsflash: most „native” apps are lazy wrappers around shitty webviews anyway.

I am aware of that and I hate those apps, because those are worst of both worlds - it works as bad as any overcomplicated web app but they also have access to native apis and information that would be inaccessible through web browser (or at least be blockable)
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