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Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

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Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#901

Post by lbotos »

shadowtree wrote: post #884

Unpopular opinion - if you can simply move or work while traveling as an IC - you are not an essential worker for your company. The big productivity culling is coming, overhiring was so easy, all seemed justified. Careful of marking yourself as replaceable with remote labor. You might not like just how remote management will go :)

With all due respect to janitors, by your logic, janitors are the most essential workers at said company.

In earnest, whom did you actually envision to be "essential" then?

What will probably happen is the company will want to lower the workers salary based on the local market that the IC is operating in. If you aren't trying to wage arb, then you could keep your job, and potentially be happy.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#902

Post by mediaman »

shadowtree wrote: post #884

Unpopular opinion - if you can simply move or work while traveling as an IC - you are not an essential worker for your company. The big productivity culling is coming, overhiring was so easy, all seemed justified. Careful of marking yourself as replaceable with remote labor. You might not like just how remote management will go :)

Does anyone have a counter to the idea that greater management confidence and expertise in remote work will unlock offshoring of IC tech roles, and therefore create a vastly bigger pool of low priced tech competition?

The primary problem I see is that offshoring tech work to India has been an option for a long time, but has largely failed for a variety of reasons - US companies seem to feel they get better value paying a much higher price for talent in tech hubs. It's not clear how the calculus would be different now.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#903

Post by tanatocenose »

artursapek wrote: post #671
mrgordon wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think San Francisco has poor quality food, you clearly haven’t spent much time there (as you admit) or you don’t have very discerning taste. California grows the majority of the country’s produce and most everyone else is getting the same ingredients a few days later. Farm to table is the standard instead of something that starts at $25/plate like in most US cities The city could be more dense in some areas bu…

The majority of the country's produce? I call bullshit.

Yep. The only reason CA hasn’t seceded yet, the rest of the country would starve without them.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#904

Post by robotburrito »

fortran77 wrote: post #422
captaincole wrote: post #102

I am living in SF now and this confirms a very clear pattern that I have seen emerging, particularly of tech workers. I would say that >50% of the people I know who were living in the city have left, or are in the process of leaving. Some examples (there are countless): 1) All three of the roommates that I had are choosing to leave either permanently or temporarily. 2) A friend who works for google who is going on a…

And what does SF have for people who don't care about the "bars and culture?" Not much. I spend a half the year in my Sunnyvale, CA home. I never go to SF to see shows, concerts, etc. Several times a year, when I'm in the U.S., I'll put together a trip to NY, LA, etc, to see several events over a long weekend. And/or go to Tanglewood, Monterey Jazz, Cabrillo music festivals. People who visit me are shocked to learn t…

If you are into the outdoors and being an active person it is pretty amazing to live here. The cycling here is quite possibly the best in the world and can be accessed without a car within minutes.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#905

Post by mywittyname »

shadowtree wrote: post #884

Unpopular opinion - if you can simply move or work while traveling as an IC - you are not an essential worker for your company. The big productivity culling is coming, overhiring was so easy, all seemed justified. Careful of marking yourself as replaceable with remote labor. You might not like just how remote management will go :)

I don't understand this argument.

My interpretation of "essential" with it comes it ICs is someone with a vast amount of domain knowledge which is critical for the continued operation of the company.

I've worked at many places where essential workers were in other countries, and I didn't know if they worked in an office, from home, or from a ski resort. But it didn't matter because they had the information I needed.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#906

Post by yellowapple »

radicaldreamer wrote: post #530
koolba wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The misconception is that people are leaving because the housing is too expensive and its not worth it anymore. Almost everybody I know that moved out had no problem affording housing (high earners / home owners / rent controlled). People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. Whether something is too expensive is not just a function of…

Only in the short to medium term... the characteristics which make SF an attractive place to live (just like NYC) are resilient and sticky. If you consider a post-covid world 5 years from now, do you think that SF with it's museums, bars, restaurants, and proximity to nature will be an unattractive place to live? Do you think that remote-first/remote-only companies where the majority of employees are outside of the b…

> Do you think that remote-first/remote-only companies where the majority of employees are outside of the bay area will be as competitive with startups which follow a more traditional model in silicon valley?

Absolutely. Lower overhead, greater access to talent, and assertions that the Silicon Valley model is somehow better than a remote-first model are frequently worthy of a big ol' [citation needed].

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#907

Post by fragmede »

SQueeeeeL wrote: post #891
tempsy wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and now Lyft and Uber might be shutting off service in CA this week.

I mean, they won't (because lost revenue). And if they do 10 other major companies will be starting in under a week who are willing to play ball with the gov

No need to wait a week, YellowCab made an app (YoTaxi SF) years ago, and was playing 'ball' with the government before it was cool.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#908

Post by SQueeeeeL »

andreilys wrote: post #900
SQueeeeeL wrote: post #891

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, they won't (because lost revenue). And if they do 10 other major companies will be starting in under a week who are willing to play ball with the gov

How will those 10 other major companies make money when both Uber and Lyft have been deeply unprofitable?

I mean, if there aren't competitors running their businesses at a loss, presumably some more expensive actually profitable competitors will be able to come in...?

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#909

Post by blablabla123 »

I never lived in the Bay Area but as a tech worker of course this was something that I had to think about. But to me the only point of living there seems to be work. I cannot imagine a job that interesting to me to give up anything else in live for it. To me the city planners messed up big time because making sure low-cost living remaining possible is essential for a great city and different kinds of people coming together. I hope this will be a learning but maybe change will also now be driven differently

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#910

Post by tanjtanjtanj »

djrogers wrote: post #875
2arrs2ells wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you live in the Bay Area? Your take doesn’t match my experience at all... * Most of my friends are members of one museum (or have season tickets to SHN/SFJazz/etc) * Most of my friends go hiking in Marin or Big Basin or whenever at least once a month, and spend a weekend somewhere like Big Sur or Yosemite a couple times a year. Bay Area nature is unparalleled. SF may be in a tough place for a while, but don’t unde…

> and spend a weekend somewhere like Big Sur or Yosemite a couple times a year. Bay Area nature is unparalleled. If you've gotta drive 4 hours to get there, it isn't 'Bay Area nature'... There are very few places in this vast and beautiful country that aren't 3-4 hours away from jaw-dropping scenery - in fact I doubt you could find a single one.

Dallas, Texas fits (or nearly fits) this description. Unless I've missed some area of Jaw-Dropping scenery that's more than a single attraction, it's 10+ hours to the natural beauty found in Arkansas or Colorado, and 4+ hours to get to the closest thing to it in Texas.
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