Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Announcing HackStars

techstars.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 112 posts

Re: Announcing HackStars

#91

Post by mroman »

defendersown wrote: post #83

I think that there are some people on this forum that are missing the point. Just because you are a hacker, does not mean that you have the ingredients to make a successful company. As some have already noted, this is a program for those people who were rejected from TechStars initially to get into the program and glean most of the benefits by donating some of their time. Fifteen hours per week is only two hours per…

"I think that there are some people on this forum that are missing the point. Just because you are a hacker, does not mean that you have the ingredients to make a successful company."

AND?

Who cares?

You are talking as if making a "successful company" is the be all end all and the ultimate objective of hacking.

Hacking is about Hacking, it is not about money, companies, meetings, sub 90 IQ's in suits, etc etc etc

Re: Announcing HackStars

#92

Post by mroman »

Tichy wrote: post #78

Let's have a TV show, I think in the US they are called "American Idol"? In Germany we have "Germany's Next Topmodel" and "Germany's next Superstar", both concepts could be easily extended into a show that portrays the making of a HackStar.

I am sorry, that would be NAUSEATING.

Re: Announcing HackStars

#93

Post by mroman »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #61
bradgessler wrote: post #39

Jeff said it best when he was asked the question at an event in Boston, "What is better, YC or TechStars?" Jeff's answer: "You can teach a hacker business, but you can't teach a businessman how to hack". 'nuff said.

Ah yes...there's something magical about hackers that means they can learn business, but "businessmen" can never learn the mystical arts of hacking. Give me a break. Actually, rather than repeat myself, here's my comment from a couple weeks ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=515978

"Ah yes...there's something magical about hackers that means they can learn business, but "businessmen" can never learn the mystical arts of hacking."

YOU BET!

Sure, some MBA can click on menus or slap whatever together.

That's not hacking.

Re: Announcing HackStars

#94

Post by mroman »

ericb wrote: post #72
ryanwaggoner wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes...there's something magical about hackers that means they can learn business, but "businessmen" can never learn the mystical arts of hacking. Give me a break. Actually, rather than repeat myself, here's my comment from a couple weeks ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=515978

Magical hits it on the head, except not the way you think. Magical thinking is what you can't do and be a good hacker. Magical thinking won't stop you from being a good business person with good instincts for opportunities who understands the bottom line, or from being a great sales guy who can close faster than a bank at 4. The subset of hackers who can learn "business" is greater than the subset of business people…

It's not arrogance when it is the truth.

If I could stay awake long enough, that MBA spiel is ELEMENTARY

PLEASE

Re: Announcing HackStars

#95

Post by mroman »

sscheper wrote: post #85

They can spin this any way the want, at the end of the day, they're trying to do one thing: find programmers dumb enough to work for free.

Notice how bright the suits are?

The people that would get into that, are EXACTLY the kind of people that they need least.

Re: Announcing HackStars

#96

Post by mroman »

physcab wrote: post #69
mechanical_fish wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they just want to see how much you enjoy doing the work. Here's what I'd say to that: "I enjoy doing work that adds value . If you have something valuable for me to do for your company, pay me what it is worth. If not, I'll be happy to sit in your air-conditioned office writing free software that has value for me . And then you will be able to see how much I enjoy doing that." But you probably shouldn't say that out…

Wow. You are very passionate about this aren't you? (I'm not being sarcastic, I really admire you for voicing this). I guess I just don't see this practice as unethical because if I look at the whole spectrum of unethical behaviors, this seems very minor to me. Does that make it excusable? Probably not. But to me this is just about acquiring a skill which I previously did not have. It's not about recognition or compe…

No, it's not unethical. It's downright criminal. It's called fraud. Someone is being misled into supplying someone else with labor. What are the falsehoods? The purported benefits to be obtained in exchange for the labor.

Re: Announcing HackStars

#97

Post by gojomo »

BobbyH wrote: post #90
gojomo wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL, but I believe a strict literal enforcement of minimum-wage laws also prohibits founders working for their own corporation without salary. (Equity doesn't count for minimum wage calculations.) Much of the bootstrapped-startup culture we celebrate may thus rely on lax enforcement of these laws.

Good point, but only employees must be paid the minimum wage. If you founded the company, you are not an employee because you direct your work. The IRS says an employee is "anyone who performs services for an organization is an employee if the organization can control what will be done and how it will be done" ( http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=131137,00.html ).

But as soon as you incorporate, take on cofounders and investors, and adopt a title, you're essentially working at the direction of the organization. Your equity is likely subject to a vesting schedule and (given the right constellation of agreement among the other founders and investors) you could even be 'let go'.

Also, the IRS doesn't enforce minimum wages and labor laws, so its definitions aren't necessarily relevant. (For example, it will tax equity compensation that doesn't count toward minimum wage calculations.)

So you may be right, but I'm not yet convinced. The strict letter of the law seems to suggest that corporations must pay even their founders minimum wages.

And if there's some 'bright-line' rule that clearly tells us when this is not the case, I've never heard it. (For example, if "5%" is traditionally enough ownership, by statute or administrative ruling, to count someone as an owner rather than employee, that would be very good to know -- you could have exactly 20 equal founders and no investors and still have founders bootstrap with their own donated labor.)

Re: Announcing HackStars

#98

Post by bradgessler »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #61
bradgessler wrote: post #39

Jeff said it best when he was asked the question at an event in Boston, "What is better, YC or TechStars?" Jeff's answer: "You can teach a hacker business, but you can't teach a businessman how to hack". 'nuff said.

Ah yes...there's something magical about hackers that means they can learn business, but "businessmen" can never learn the mystical arts of hacking. Give me a break. Actually, rather than repeat myself, here's my comment from a couple weeks ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=515978

The statement is an oversimplification that only makes sense when you throw a 25 year old hacker by a 25 year old businessman with novice levels of experience in their fields.

Re: Announcing HackStars

#99

Post by unalone »

mroman wrote: post #94
ericb wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Magical hits it on the head, except not the way you think. Magical thinking is what you can't do and be a good hacker. Magical thinking won't stop you from being a good business person with good instincts for opportunities who understands the bottom line, or from being a great sales guy who can close faster than a bank at 4. The subset of hackers who can learn "business" is greater than the subset of business people…

It's not arrogance when it is the truth. If I could stay awake long enough, that MBA spiel is ELEMENTARY PLEASE

Ah, so you have an MBA? Which you earned while sleeping through that simplistic spiel? Please talk about your experiences so I can develop a similar distaste for an oversimplistic overhyped major, or else stop talking about things you have no personal experience with.

Re: Announcing HackStars

#100

Post by swalkergibson »

mroman wrote: post #91
defendersown wrote: post #83

I think that there are some people on this forum that are missing the point. Just because you are a hacker, does not mean that you have the ingredients to make a successful company. As some have already noted, this is a program for those people who were rejected from TechStars initially to get into the program and glean most of the benefits by donating some of their time. Fifteen hours per week is only two hours per…

"I think that there are some people on this forum that are missing the point. Just because you are a hacker, does not mean that you have the ingredients to make a successful company." AND? Who cares? You are talking as if making a "successful company" is the be all end all and the ultimate objective of hacking. Hacking is about Hacking, it is not about money, companies, meetings, sub 90 IQ's in suits, etc etc etc

Well, I think that based on the context of this forum (YCombinator is a seed stage incubator fund) we can assume most people here are interested in either starting a company themselves, or getting involved with one. So, is making a "successful company" the be all, end all? No. However, TechStars is attempting to open a door here, and many people are slamming it shut.
Post reply on HN