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Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

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Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#91

Post by LocalH »

dylan604 wrote: post #87
mlmonkey wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wouldn't be a story if the cops did not put the wrong license plate in the system. How is it Flock's fault? Flock is just doing what it is being asked to do! Let me put in simple terms: Flock flags license plates that are given to it. Someone, somewhere says, license plate "ABCD1234" has a warrant out. And guess what, if Flock sees that plate, it _will_ flag it each. and. every. time! Tomorrow, say an "Amber Ale…

I think if you are driving around in a pink Ford Taurus you are definitely guilty of something even if the plate reads MARYKAY

bad taste isn't a crime lmao

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#92

Post by mrlonglong »

zehaeva wrote: post #73
LocalH wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is that disambiguation of glyphs in a font is a solved problem. Slash the zeroes, wide serifs on the capital i, etc. They just...don't do so in these states where it is still a problem.

It's also a a problem because not all states are the same, some don't allow O, some do. Some allow 0, some don't! The cameras need to be able to read both.

In the UK this issue was recognised decades ago. They only allow certain letters and numbers in specific places on the registration plates.

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#93

Post by dylan604 »

sathackr wrote: post #60
mlmonkey wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wouldn't be a story if the cops did not put the wrong license plate in the system. How is it Flock's fault? Flock is just doing what it is being asked to do! Let me put in simple terms: Flock flags license plates that are given to it. Someone, somewhere says, license plate "ABCD1234" has a warrant out. And guess what, if Flock sees that plate, it _will_ flag it each. and. every. time! Tomorrow, say an "Amber Ale…

"They can't remove it without knowing who the warrant is for" is absolutely Flocks problem. They're alerting on a license plate but yet somehow they can't turn off that license plate alert using just the license plate number? Fucking bullshit

Wouldn't it be the purview of the cops to update Flock that the plate is no longer of interest and to stop alerting on it? I'm no fan of Flock, but let's put the onus where it is deserved.

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#94

Post by dylan604 »

rtkwe wrote: post #77
mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or at least, enforce a totally unambiguous font, like slashed zero!

Doesn't solve the issue until all 48/50 states have the same standard.

interesting. i never new a fraction of something could be considered all.

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#95

Post by Zigurd »

LocalH wrote: post #38
readthenotes1 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We need strong laws preventing any AI process from being used for law enforcement at all. The mere presence of AI at any step in the process should result in complete exoneration." Why? It seems to me that the biggest problem with policing is qualified immunity that prevents proper feedback (or what my dad would have called "consequences"). Without that, the tools the police use are largely irrelevant.

Good luck ending qualified immunity. The current SCOTUS would strike such a law down in seconds if it reached their docket

Colorado and New Mexico do not have qualified immunity for law-enforcement. It's not carved in stone and it's not inevitable. If your state has ballot questions, it's time to get that on the ballot at the next possible opportunity.

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#96

Post by Zigurd »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #9
LocalH wrote: post #3

Flock should be shut down and their entire c-suite should be sent to prison for human rights violations Also, not just an isolated incident: https://youtu.be/8BImTddknfk We need strong laws preventing any AI process from being used for law enforcement at all . The mere presence of AI at any step in the process should result in complete exoneration.

Why punish the employees of a business when the root cause is corrupt government employees abusing their power? Edit to respond to smt88: IBM knowingly selling services to the Nazis specifically to violate human rights is not the same as Flock selling services to cops to aid in identification. In addition, going after 1 business is simply an inefficient use of resources, when the government employees can simply use a…

Your question is too unspecific. We're talking about cop tech and surveillance, which has a very specific business ecosystem.

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#97

Post by NoSalt »

pj_mukh wrote: post #6

Paraphrasing the crux of the issue: "It's regular practice in Colorado to list license plates with both versions, the one with 'O's and the other with Zeros in the warrant list." Insane. Practice. As always, this story has have nothing to do with the cameras or AI, but "law enforcement has an insane lazy practice" doesn't make for a very good headline anymore.

Wow ... how would you like to get arrested in front of friends and family simply because you had an 'O' instead of a '0', or vice versa?

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#98

Post by dylan604 »

LocalH wrote: post #43
munk-a wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I simply don't understand why our legal system needs a non-deterministic agent injected into it. What value are we trying to capture that isn't already delivered by our overbearing amount of surveillance.

The ability to do less actual work and still get arrests

the question does not really seem like a good faith question. if people on this forum can't see a reason why someone would want to use AI to make their life easier is kind of hypocritical. what, it's only good for techbros to use it, but other's can't? we know that pretty much every police agency is understaffed and those working are humans and would like to make their job easier/faster/more successful just like everyone else. unfortunately, they are running into the same thing techbros are in that AI is an oversold bill of goods that can actually cause more work than without it. and i'm saying this that has a very strong skepticism about the status of current policing.

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#99

Post by Zigurd »

smt88 wrote: post #12
LocalH wrote: post #5

Since I got downvoted, this isn't just this guy. https://youtu.be/8BImTddknfk Turns out police are putting ambiguous plates in the system under all variants, and Flock is lapping it up. The cops who do so should also go to prison.

Cops have qualified immunity and unions with supreme power. No one will go to prison or even reprimanded for this.

That's not true everywhere. Qualified immunity can be removed at the state level, and has been in some places. Nothing the cop union can do about that.

Re: Flock cameras keep telling police a man who doesn't have a warrant has a warrant

#100

Post by dualvariable »

pj_mukh wrote: post #6

Paraphrasing the crux of the issue: "It's regular practice in Colorado to list license plates with both versions, the one with 'O's and the other with Zeros in the warrant list." Insane. Practice. As always, this story has have nothing to do with the cameras or AI, but "law enforcement has an insane lazy practice" doesn't make for a very good headline anymore.

> "It's regular practice in Colorado to list license plates with both versions, the one with 'O's and the other with Zeros in the warrant list."

That is a suspicion of what might be the problem.

And he's facing a Kafkaesque problem that in order to get him removed from the list they need to know who the warrant is for, but he also can't find out who the warrant is for. Someone can clearly figure this out and help to get it fixed, but he's been unable to talk to a person that has the ability and authorization to query the system to figure it out for him.

We really need some anti-Kafka laws in this country so that if you wind up any sort of list like this, including bans from companies like Apple/Google/Meta/etc, that you have the right to know why and to appeal, and that they must not by default assume that you're a fraudster and refuse to speak with you.

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