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Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

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Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#91

Post by [deleted] »

Symbiote wrote: post #82
booi wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This statement really makes no sense.. > Google, Cloudflare, VPN providers, and other entities facilitating piracy are responsible for the illegal activities they enable and profit from. Why wouldn't ISPs be responsible too? or the cable modem providers? or the computer providers? or your eyes. Let's just blame all those things and not the person that made it or the person that consumes it.

Cloudflare are actively involved in publishing this content — they are equivalent to the hosting provider.

[deleted]

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#92

Post by prmoustache »

booi wrote: post #62
prmoustache wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telefonica, the telecom company who bought the rights of LaLiga and btained the judgement against cloudflare IPs, sells some of those services through its business services branch.

To say that Telefonica offers even remotely the same services and features that Cloudflare does is a lie at best.

The keyword was "some".

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#93

Post by pavon »

martin8412 wrote: post #57
pjc50 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe someone can explain, but I don't understand why such an order isn't applied to cloudflare themselves?

It was. La Liga isn’t satisfied with the response time of Cloudflare. Cloudflare would not commit to content being taken down during while the match is still going. La Liga wants to be able to point to a URL hosted by Cloudflare and demand it taken down that instant while the match is still on. It would require dedicated staff at Cloudflare to deal with La Liga stream takedowns.

More so, La Liga wants Cloudflare to take it down for the entire world, not just block it from Spanish IPs, regardless of whether the host resides in Spain. Cloudflare has refused to do so.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#94

Post by hnlmorg »

pdpi wrote: post #89
hnlmorg wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taken to its logical conclusion, and I do mean "logical" and not "rhetorically overblown for effect", this comes perilously close to just declaring that the value of the Internet is so net negative due to piracy that it should just be shut down in Spain. What you’ve described there is completely overblown for rhetoric. The internet is still needed for delivering legal streams of matches. So there’s never going to b…

> The internet is still needed for delivering legal streams of matches. So there’s never going to be any pressure to turn off the entire internet. Cloudflare serves a whole bunch of legal and genuinely important services, and yet there was enough pressure to block them off.

…and that was already enough to get Congress to review the situation. The first paragraph in the article we are discussing says:

> The complaints about the massive fall of web pages caused by LaLiga's fight against piracy reached Congress months ago. And the Chamber is now preparing to take measures.

But even ignoring the fact that TFA directly disproves your and the GP's argument, the point you're making that "x got approved so y also will" isn't how things work in the real world. People do have a pain threshold and just because CloudFlare was tolerated until now doesn't mean greater blockages would have been equally tolerated.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#95

Post by rtkwe »

dwedge wrote: post #68
rtkwe wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unreasonable to expect cloudflare etc to be able to proactively identify legal vs illegal streams. The companies who own the copyrights can't even get that right much less a third party that has no idea if a stream is licensed.

Who said proactively?

Any action by cloudflare before a court order or notice would be proactive. There's no way to effectively block streamers of live shows because they can create new sites or accounts for each event and by the time they're found, reported and cloudflare reasonably reviews and acts on them the event will be long over.

What do you expect cloudflare to actually do about these streams?

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#96

Post by embedding-shape »

evilmonkey19 wrote: post #61
matteason wrote: post #10

Context: last year LaLiga (top-level Spanish football league) obtained a court order compelling Spanish ISPs to block certain IPs during football matches, as those IPs have been associated with illegal streams of live matches. Many of those IPs are shared Cloudflare IPs, with the result being many legitimate sites become unavailable in Spain during LaLiga matches https://cybernews.com/news/spain-laliga-streaming-pira…

Personally, myself I have been greatly impacted by this measures. Several services of mine were unavailable because LaLiga said so. No notification, no justification, they block and that's all. It has been a shame since the beginning.

> No notification

What ISP? I'm using Vodafone and if I accept the insecure connection (because of mismatched certificate), I get served the notification. You don't get that?

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#97

Post by embedding-shape »

tshaddox wrote: post #43
pjc50 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe someone can explain, but I don't understand why such an order isn't applied to cloudflare themselves?

Presumably the Cloudflare network resources in question were not located in Spain and thus not under Spanish jurisduction. Or even if they were, it may be procedurally simpler for the Spanish government to compel ISPs to block IPs.

> it may be procedurally simpler for the Spanish government to compel ISPs to block IPs.

The Spanish government is not the ones enforcing the ban here. La Liga and Telefonica went to the judges, who are the ones making ISPs to enforce these blocks, as an intermediate "fix" essentially.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#98

Post by superjose »

GranPC wrote: post #47
superjose wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1000% I got legit Cloudflare Workers Anycast IPs that I was using for websockets blocked. I also got blocked from using RustDesk. It's been crazy. As this happens intermittently. I had to set up a tailscale exit node in one of my servers to circumvent this crap. I lost several days and called Vodafone (ISP) to understand what was going on. That's when I read Reddit and saw that crap.

I don't think RustDesk was hit by this. If you weren't able to access it two weeks ago, it was due to an outage on their end: https://github.com/rustdesk/uptime/issues/53

Thanks for the heads up! I'm using it self-hosted on a Hetzner VPS.

Apparently they also block certain ports. As soon as I route the traffic through Tailscale through the same VPS I can connect without issues (My phone was affected as well)

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#99

Post by embedding-shape »

dbbk wrote: post #65

Genuinely never thought I'd see the day. This has been horrible for me running an event ticketing business in Spain... where downtime is basically not acceptable.

Why would you be using Cloudflare when there are better options, especially if you've known for years that this has been going on? Seems like a poor business decision really.

Don't get me wrong, I hate getting blocked just because there is a La Liga game, but lets also take some responsibility for our own decisions here...

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