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Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

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Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#61

Post by evilmonkey19 »

matteason wrote: post #10

Context: last year LaLiga (top-level Spanish football league) obtained a court order compelling Spanish ISPs to block certain IPs during football matches, as those IPs have been associated with illegal streams of live matches. Many of those IPs are shared Cloudflare IPs, with the result being many legitimate sites become unavailable in Spain during LaLiga matches https://cybernews.com/news/spain-laliga-streaming-pira…

Personally, myself I have been greatly impacted by this measures. Several services of mine were unavailable because LaLiga said so. No notification, no justification, they block and that's all. It has been a shame since the beginning.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#62

Post by booi »

prmoustache wrote: post #51
dylan604 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What other provider than Cloudflare is out there that offers the things Cloudflare does? Why are people not already switching to them if they are available?

Telefonica, the telecom company who bought the rights of LaLiga and btained the judgement against cloudflare IPs, sells some of those services through its business services branch.

To say that Telefonica offers even remotely the same services and features that Cloudflare does is a lie at best.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#63

Post by babypuncher »

estebank wrote: post #18
dmitrygr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually hope they do. this will force a proper reckoning about the situation and maybe a proper fix.

On the one hand, I would tend to agree that making things painful enough might force people to stop ignoring and improve things. On the other, after seeing waves hands at everything since 2016 makes me very skeptical of accelerationism: sometimes things just get worse and worse, there's no bottom to bounce from. Or maybe we just never really hit rock bottom?

The bottom is just so much farther down than we remember. Tremendous progress was made in the 20th century, particularly in the aftermath of WWII, and we've kind of just been coasting on it for 50 years.

Accelerationism was always a terrible idea.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#64

Post by echoangle »

matteason wrote: post #40
dylan604 wrote: post #25

I'm interested in how those conversations went between the LaLiga and Cloudflare that convinced them to do this. I know I'm not Cloudflare, but if a company (any company) came to me demanding blocking IP ranges according the their schedule that would require a bunch of work on my end to make it happen, there's going to be a lot of push back. It'd take a dump truck load of money to make that happen.

Cloudflare are very much pushing back: https://www.laliga.com/en-GB/news/official-statement-in-rela...

> Through this conduct, Cloudflare is actively enabling illegal activities such as human trafficking, prostitution, pornography, counterfeiting, fraud, and scams, among other things.

Pornography is illegal in Spain now?

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#66

Post by dwedge »

pier25 wrote: post #44
dwedge wrote: post #19

I'm torn on this. It always should have gone through the courts, but the fact is that cloudflare are providing access to illegal content and not doing anything about it. They were left with two choices if Cloudflare refuse to act. Either accept it (oh well, too big to fail), or block them. I dislike what is happening but I kind of like that they don't care about the size of Cloudflare and hold them as accountable as…

> the fact is that cloudflare are providing access to illegal content Why make CloudFlare ultimately responsible though? There are lots of companies between users and the servers providing pirated content. Cloudflare is just one step in the whole chain. Why not eg block Google Chrome? In any case, blocking Cloudflare was a stupid thing to do. Especially because it didn't anything to solve the actual problem.

Cloudflare provide a service masking the IP address of the illegal content, really you know the answer to when them and not Chrome

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#67

Post by gnfargbl »

matteason wrote: post #40
dylan604 wrote: post #25

I'm interested in how those conversations went between the LaLiga and Cloudflare that convinced them to do this. I know I'm not Cloudflare, but if a company (any company) came to me demanding blocking IP ranges according the their schedule that would require a bunch of work on my end to make it happen, there's going to be a lot of push back. It'd take a dump truck load of money to make that happen.

Cloudflare are very much pushing back: https://www.laliga.com/en-GB/news/official-statement-in-rela...

That statement from La Liga is nothing short of embarrassing. Raving about child pornography, in a simple copyright infringement case? And the repeated focus on "IPs" is incredibly disingenuous; Cloudflare's multiplexing of half the internet onto a small number of IP addresses is not exactly a secret in the tech community.

Why are Spain's courts allowing this injunction to stand? It's clearly being used to bring the court system itself into disrepute at this point.

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#68

Post by dwedge »

rtkwe wrote: post #37
dwedge wrote: post #19

I'm torn on this. It always should have gone through the courts, but the fact is that cloudflare are providing access to illegal content and not doing anything about it. They were left with two choices if Cloudflare refuse to act. Either accept it (oh well, too big to fail), or block them. I dislike what is happening but I kind of like that they don't care about the size of Cloudflare and hold them as accountable as…

It's unreasonable to expect cloudflare etc to be able to proactively identify legal vs illegal streams. The companies who own the copyrights can't even get that right much less a third party that has no idea if a stream is licensed.

Who said proactively?

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#69

Post by dbbk »

martin8412 wrote: post #57
pjc50 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe someone can explain, but I don't understand why such an order isn't applied to cloudflare themselves?

It was. La Liga isn’t satisfied with the response time of Cloudflare. Cloudflare would not commit to content being taken down during while the match is still going. La Liga wants to be able to point to a URL hosted by Cloudflare and demand it taken down that instant while the match is still on. It would require dedicated staff at Cloudflare to deal with La Liga stream takedowns.

Cloudflare said they created a dedicated hotline for LaLiga, and apparently it wasn't enough for them

Re: Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga

#70

Post by dwedge »

stavros wrote: post #39
dwedge wrote: post #19

I'm torn on this. It always should have gone through the courts, but the fact is that cloudflare are providing access to illegal content and not doing anything about it. They were left with two choices if Cloudflare refuse to act. Either accept it (oh well, too big to fail), or block them. I dislike what is happening but I kind of like that they don't care about the size of Cloudflare and hold them as accountable as…

How much of a responsibility should the provider have to scan what they're hosting and proactively make a judgment on whether they should block it or not?

Once again, who said proactively?
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