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How wolves became dogs

economist.com

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Re: How wolves became dogs

#91

Post by overfeed »

conductr wrote: post #23
sph wrote: post #9

It's clear that human companionship has shaped wolves into dogs. A weird, perhaps silly question I've had for a while is: how have wolves shaped humans? Has human society in any way been affected by the structure of wolf packs? Did hairless monkeys form stronger tribes because of it? I don't believe for a second that this deep interspecies friendship has been one-sided and hasn't brought psychological if not physical…

On a long enough timeline it’s possible that cat-people and dog-people evolve separately into different species

My bet is the other species will be a result of Toxoplasma gondii zombification.

Re: How wolves became dogs

#93

Post by orbital-decay »

runjake wrote: post #52
IAmBroom wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Counterpoint: since the canines can't keep up with the humans, are they only used to start the hunt? How do they know where the humans are near the end? Until the dog is fully domesticated (OK, I'll go home and await his return. He'll bring me meat!), I don't know how they could cooperate on a many-hour hunt like this. I used to wonder the same about falconry until I met a hawkmaster. The animals don't t…

> Counterpoint: since the canines can't keep up with the humans, are they only used to start the hunt? Can you elaborate here? This is a weird fascination of mine (man+canine). I walk long distances with dogs, here's what I've found and ruminated: 1. If I chase or follow a dog, I can chase them to exhaustion. 2. If I'm walking several miles with a dog, they tend to trot ahead of me and stop and pant and wait for me.…

Humans have tons of small adaptations to sustained activity, from sweating to optimized metabolism and locomotion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endurance_running_hypothesis

Re: How wolves became dogs

#94

Post by gweinberg »

FeteCommuniste wrote: post #36
sjw987 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK, it's incredibly common for dog owners to do this. When confronted about leaving the bagged dog shit somewhere they always say they're going to pick it up on the way back, yet the next day it's still there. Modern British dog owners are incredibly irresponsible surrounding how they look after their pets and how they handle the pets mess. Covid made it measurably worse.

> In the UK, it's incredibly common for dog owners to do this. That's wild. I've never once seen this in the US. Obviously there are people who just don't clean up after their dogs in the first place, but to clean it up and then hang the bagged crap on a tree? Haha.

In the US they don't hang it on trees, they just leave by the side of the trail or road or whatever. But it is very common to see bags of dogshit on the sidewalk or by the side of a trail in the US.

Re: How wolves became dogs

#95

Post by wincy »

the_af wrote: post #26
tomkaos wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read somewhere that he could have change human sleep. Human can have a deeper sleep knowing a guard will alert of danger.

Thankfully we have those other animals, "human puppies", to counteract this :P

I know it’s said in jest, but if your kid is attached while you’re sleeping, i.e. breastfeeding and cosleeping, which a hunter gatherer society would most certainly do, babies don’t fuss unless they’re sick or something. My wife slept soundly through the night and said “it’s amazing she doesn’t feed at night!” (Referring to our daughter), and I said, shocked, “she eats at night, she makes a soft noise and you just roll over and pop a boob in her mouth without waking up!” This is entirely a modern problem of our own creation and convenience.

Re: How wolves became dogs

#96

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

All these comments, and no one has mentioned the classic “What’s the Worst That Can Happen?” Meme?

I won’t link to it, because all the sources are not so nice for techs, but just search for “10000 years later”, or “what’s the worst that can happen?”. The thumbnail previews will be fine. No need to open X or Facebook.

Re: How wolves became dogs

#97

Post by cmrx64 »

dboreham wrote: post #87
sjw987 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK, it's incredibly common for dog owners to do this. When confronted about leaving the bagged dog shit somewhere they always say they're going to pick it up on the way back, yet the next day it's still there. Modern British dog owners are incredibly irresponsible surrounding how they look after their pets and how they handle the pets mess. Covid made it measurably worse.

One of the few benefits of widespread gun ownership in the USA: overt antisocial behavior is less common.

Contrariwise, I was part of the troupe of people that daily picked up these bags along walking trails. One of the few benefits of living in the USA: covert prosocial behavior is extremely common.

Re: How wolves became dogs

#98

Post by mjanx123 »

IAmBroom wrote: post #40
szanni wrote: post #12

I am rather surprised the article does not mention the shared hunting technique of pursuing prey until exhaustion as a possible link. Many hunter gather tribes apparently employed this technique and it can still be found today in Africa with the San people. Sharing food or stealing wolf puppies were probably part of the domestication but was this because humans possibly hunted alongside wolves? Humans possibly being…

Interesting. Counterpoint: since the canines can't keep up with the humans, are they only used to start the hunt? How do they know where the humans are near the end? Until the dog is fully domesticated (OK, I'll go home and await his return. He'll bring me meat!), I don't know how they could cooperate on a many-hour hunt like this. I used to wonder the same about falconry until I met a hawkmaster. The animals don't t…

> the canines can't keep up with the humans

That only applies in hot climate. In moderate climate, canines have similar performance to humans, in the arctic canines are ~2x better.

Re: How wolves became dogs

#99

Post by Retric »

IAmBroom wrote: post #40
szanni wrote: post #12

I am rather surprised the article does not mention the shared hunting technique of pursuing prey until exhaustion as a possible link. Many hunter gather tribes apparently employed this technique and it can still be found today in Africa with the San people. Sharing food or stealing wolf puppies were probably part of the domestication but was this because humans possibly hunted alongside wolves? Humans possibly being…

Interesting. Counterpoint: since the canines can't keep up with the humans, are they only used to start the hunt? How do they know where the humans are near the end? Until the dog is fully domesticated (OK, I'll go home and await his return. He'll bring me meat!), I don't know how they could cooperate on a many-hour hunt like this. I used to wonder the same about falconry until I met a hawkmaster. The animals don't t…

Dogs packs also do persistence hunting by having the animal pass back and forth. As long as the prey is forced to travel further than any individual dog it works fine.

In the wider context there are other examples of cross species hunting with octopus and fish for example. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/watch-octopuses-te... So, completely wild wolves doing something similar with humans seems extremely plausible.

Re: How wolves became dogs

#100

Post by mjanx123 »

IAmBroom wrote: post #42
HPsquared wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where evolutionary theory can be viewed through the lens of coevolution or group selection (a group defined as containing both a selection of humans, and also animals and plants in varying degrees of domestication, as a whole system). This is in contrast to kin selection, which only accounts for genetic relatedness. I remember in one of Jiang Xueqin's videos, he made the interesting argument that "grain domes…

Grains aren't very good food until bread is invented (probably from sprouted grains, originally). Seeds are designed to keep their goodness inside, and are very good at that containment. Bread in turn requires cooking. (I wonder now if there was a brief period of surviving on raw sprouted grains... which are far inferior because they mold so quickly.) Wisdom teeth are far more valuable to a precooking human, who has…

Grass and other seeds were always stew ingredients https://phys.org/news/2022-11-real-paleo-diet-archaeological...
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