JSX email is an improved fork of the (very slow to be updated) react-email code https://jsx.email/docs/quick-start
Cloudflare Email Service: private beta
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Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be honest, the internet was worse without Cloudflare, so as long as they provide a good service for their customers, I’m fine with it. This is one of those. Google is in a perfect position to compete but they don’t, so it’s not like Cloudflare is a monopoly or something. At least they’re not selling ads using your data.
If Cloudflare is so vital to the internet, it should be nationalized for the public benefit as having a private entity with so much control over the internet is not a good thing. Corporatized control of the internet should not be encouraged.
Can't believe if you are joking or not.
I trust a corporation more than I trust the nation you want it nationalized in (America?)
EU maybe. But yes I don't want cloudflare to be part of america after patriotic acts and all the dystopia.
Honestly, cloudflare is not so vital to the internet. Like, The only thing its gonna be a problem if they stop working without giving any way to migrate. Then yes, its gonna be a bit of problem to the internet.
Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta
#93Eventually all Internet protocols will be MITMed by cloudflare. Your single point of interception!
To be honest, the internet was worse without Cloudflare, so as long as they provide a good service for their customers, I’m fine with it. This is one of those. Google is in a perfect position to compete but they don’t, so it’s not like Cloudflare is a monopoly or something. At least they’re not selling ads using your data.
> At least they’re not selling ads using your data.
Yet. Since it's an american company with an ever-growing influence, I dread and expect that to change, among other things, down the road. I assume the three-letter agencies also already MITM the traffic.
Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be honest, the internet was worse without Cloudflare, so as long as they provide a good service for their customers, I’m fine with it. This is one of those. Google is in a perfect position to compete but they don’t, so it’s not like Cloudflare is a monopoly or something. At least they’re not selling ads using your data.
Arguably, ecommerce was worse without Amazon but are we really better off?
Shipping times are definitely better off industry wide because of Amazon.
Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta
#95It's always shocking to me how many people blindly sacrifice the principles that make the things their lives depend on actually worthwhile. The internet isn't just a thing that happened, it was developed and rolled out under specific principles and vision, and violating those principles destroys the system. The internet doesn't work if Matthew Prince gets to act as global gatekeeper, or if CloudFlare gets conscripted…
Agreed.
One thing I've grown concerned about, after watching the Twitter migration fizzle out, is we can imitate the old internet on a small scale, but on a large scale it just doesn't work. For Twitter specifically, the outcome was even worse, many users just migrated to other more centralized services or existing monopolies (like Instagram.)
Users are too used to being able to instantly stream 4k HDR 60fps. They are too used to limited amounts of spam. They are too used to having most non-agreeable content filtered. All of this stuff that big tech delivered now is replicate-able at the cost of tens of billions of dollars. The only business model that can pay for that is owning a giant ad platform.
Thinking about all of the issues the EU has had enforcing things like GDPR, which big tech companies largely haven't followed for years or straight up lied to their customers about, along with a possible failure of the DMA now due to tariffs.. and yet on the other side of the Atlantic, the US utterly failed to ban or control Tiktok. Endless announcements of upcoming deals that were either lies (Oracle protecting American's data) or postponements.
Meanwhile, all of the spam, hacking, bots, and DDoS attacks persist and grow, along with layer upon layer of (probably intentionally) poorly written and often conflicting legislation across multiple jurisdictions have truly made it impossible for the internet as it was designed and meant to exist to continue. (Sure you can just set up a basic web forum like you could do 20 years ago, not use Cloudflare, not host it at a major datacenter, and ignore all of the GDPR and age verification laws, but good luck. Hell, it doesn't even sound like it's really legal to run a Mastodon server anymore.)
One small hope is that if internet companies follow any pattern we've seen in other industries, when the growth ends, the managers will switch to tearing the conglomerates apart in to pieces and selling them off. One day CloudFlare might be split in to 30 pieces, along with Alphabet, Meta, and Amazon. But it could be a while.
Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta
#96No doubt cloudflare will refuse to receive emails from any mailservers except those that run special cloudflare extensions or whatever. It'll be a whitelist that's mostly corps only. For "security" of course. And eventually it'll be so popular other mailservers will stop accepting mail from any except cloudflare/ms/apple/etc.
Where are you getting this from?
How cloudflare treats web browsers and their proposals for acting as gatekeeping for allowing websites to be spidered re: AI motivated corporations. Also cloudflare's near weekly proposals of unilateral protocol features that should be IETF'd but instead they just do and make others do because they're gatekeepers and they can. I expect them to keep behaving as they have and so posited likely 'cloudflare'-like actions for their announced attack on email.
I get that most people never feel the discimination and exclusion mediated by cloudflare because most people are just using chrome or whatever standard browser on their phones. But just because one doesn't have the lived experience of discrimination doesn't mean it isn't actively happening to lots of people.
Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta
#97I feel like I'm missing something based on some of the comments here. How is this different than from SES? (Why is this controversial?)
A lot of folks find SES or even just the broader AWS experience unpleasant.
Oh sure, a nice emailing experience (compared with SES) seems positive. But there are negative comments like Cloudflare shipping this is net negative, so just trying to understand the context.
Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta
#98This is good and I am fairly certain email is dead with AI, hopefully soon.
I went from hosting my own pop/imap/smtp email to ignoring it almost completely at work and personal for a variety of reasons.
Text messages and chat or X/message boards are all I use now. I have the same ability to deliver messages, content, forward, save, export, and migrate between platforms. The spam in SMS is tolerable at this point.
Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta
#99Kind of off-topic, but it's such a pity that we arrived at email as the local minimum for the best communication protocol for transactional messages. Having to set up an email service just to be able to enable authentication flows on a new website is such a hindrance that I keep wondering if it would be different if sending push notifications to a cell phone was made an open protocol..
Spam push messages don’t need to be a thing. Ever.
Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta
#100Eventually all Internet protocols will be MITMed by cloudflare. Your single point of interception!
To be honest, the internet was worse without Cloudflare, so as long as they provide a good service for their customers, I’m fine with it. This is one of those. Google is in a perfect position to compete but they don’t, so it’s not like Cloudflare is a monopoly or something. At least they’re not selling ads using your data.
CDNs always existed IMHO. The world before cloudflare was just much more hidden. In general I find their take at the typical cloud business from a network perspective mostly refreshing.
However, I guess they have become the major player now and certainly try to optimize the world towards their business model.
IMHO it needs other enterprises entering the competition. Maybe it could be new more software defined mobile network providers offering edge compute. Maybe data from IoT could never enter the Internet and we could have some confidential computing power when we need it for our IoT stuff. Maybe we could get a more decentralized Internet again...