Live data from Hacker News

Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com

91–100 of 107 posts

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#91
post #78
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I am Indian mind you, although born and raised in the US. I will not be returning to India ever again. Sad, I am Indian too. Born, raised in India, Bangalore. The process you describe is something that every 'Indian' here goes through. I was a little taken aback when you said 'I am Indian mind you'. I think you refer to the legal status. Because although I agree that its painful- Being an Indian you experienced wha…

> But are you actually an 'Indian'? I used to work for Infosys, Bangalore. This is what it looks like http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Bangalore... (just one of about 50 buildings) I couldn't find the image but the area immediately behind Infosys(For those who know, the pathway you take to get to the bus stop on Hosur Road) is in complete contrast - dirty, impoverished. While passing through that ar…

See I am not saying staying in bad conditions makes you an Indian.

But if you complain that life as applied to any ordinary Indian is something you don't like living with, then legally whatever status you might have. You surely can't live in India anyway because you don't want to.

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#92
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now? Helping out country men from the north east, and surviving the daily tribulations of India with stoicism, and the ability to be open to all castes, creeds and colors The one thing that united most of India was mysticism and the belief that we are one under some god. You can experiment with that as a start. It's what bound the Sufis, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and several other religions during the best of…

> Right now? Helping out country men from the north east, and surviving the daily tribulations of India with stoicism, and the ability to be open to all castes, creeds and colors The discussion started from a post talking about Indian heritage , and the things which you listed(substitute people from north east with just people ) are basic qualities expected in a decent human being - there is nothing uniquely Indian o…

I don't why you are being down voted because you have some good points.

Coming to Indian heritage its all mixed up. Even though people have religious beliefs you will see common culture throughout. I can speak for South India. Its practically impossible to point out who is of what language, color, origin, religion or whatever in a crowd of thousand people. Because everybody looks and acts the very same.

In fact these days I hardly remember my religious identity unless someone explicitly forces me to.

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#93
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm very careful to adjust my clothing, hairstyle, etc. That is interesting. Did you spend majority of your childhood elsewhere, because considering the diversity of India, it's pretty hard to tell.

I've been out of India for 6 years now. I instantly stand out on the streets of Bangalore as distinctly "NRI" (Non Resident Indian, and apparently a term that means that I cannot criticize anything about India ever, especially on messageboards like hacker news [see argument in the thread above between some poor hapless PIO and resident Indians].)

You got it wrong.

I don't why you left India. But most people I know leave because of one straight thing- 'money'. Although a more soft term used is 'better life'. But two to three counter questions and it becomes clear that it was always about money.

I am not saying that is wrong. Hell we Indians have a wrong notion about money. We think rich people are evil, I understand that we have a cultural back drop behind this.

I am not saying going to another country to make money is wrong. But it must be stated that way.

'Hey, I am going away because I need to make cash'

is a lot better than.

'Hey, I am going away because this place is crap'.

The latter is a statement designed to hide your intentions and convenient point to a another reason which people feel makes them look good compared to the former.

>>apparently a term that means that I cannot criticize anything about India ever

Aha, that happens when a person contributes nothing back and still expects things to fall in place like magic.

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#94
post #86
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nothing new. For a while talking in English in India was considered a sign of being forward and modern. Parents used to take pride that their folks talk in English, even if all they do is swear. It used to look odd, strange and hilarious at times. And you see this India bashing not just in blog posts and news. But also in Novels and books, giving a bad perspective of India to a already troubled-by-outsourcing…

"But justifying your personal ambitions by talking low of your country and country men to make your ambitions not look greedy is really a cheap way of doing it." Pretty sure the reason why anyone "talks low", is because they are stating facts.

'Facts' are that our country still has a lot to progress. And people need to do something about it.

Those 'Facts' don't give you a free pass to endlessly badmouth your country to justify your immigration needs. While the actual 'Facts' you did it for are totally something else.

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#95
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm very careful to adjust my clothing, hairstyle, etc. That is interesting. Did you spend majority of your childhood elsewhere, because considering the diversity of India, it's pretty hard to tell.

I've been out of India for 6 years now. I instantly stand out on the streets of Bangalore as distinctly "NRI" (Non Resident Indian, and apparently a term that means that I cannot criticize anything about India ever, especially on messageboards like hacker news [see argument in the thread above between some poor hapless PIO and resident Indians].)

How do you manage to achieve that - instantly stand out on the streets of Bangalore as distinctly "NRI"?

Is it the clothes? Or something else? Please elaborate.

Becasue I met a nice person in Costa Coffee a few days back and after chatting for some time he revealed he was an NRI here for some falimy affair. He went to UK when he was 15 (he looked 25-30). To me at least he didn't stand out like an NRI. Neither his language or the accent. He was a Kannadiga (Kannada his mother tongue) and me being a north Indian (Hindi my mother tongue), we talked in clear and crisp Hindi for about 15-20 minutes.

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#96
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been out of India for 6 years now. I instantly stand out on the streets of Bangalore as distinctly "NRI" (Non Resident Indian, and apparently a term that means that I cannot criticize anything about India ever, especially on messageboards like hacker news [see argument in the thread above between some poor hapless PIO and resident Indians].)

How do you manage to achieve that - instantly stand out on the streets of Bangalore as distinctly "NRI" ? Is it the clothes? Or something else? Please elaborate. Becasue I met a nice person in Costa Coffee a few days back and after chatting for some time he revealed he was an NRI here for some falimy affair. He went to UK when he was 15 (he looked 25-30). To me at least he didn't stand out like an NRI. Neither his la…

> How do you manage to achieve that - instantly stand out on the streets of Bangalore as distinctly "NRI"?

Now I will throw a claim which I am not going to back - I would like the other side to back theirs. It is impossible to stand out as NRI, let alone distinctly NRI. There is nothing in your clothes or hairstyle that marks you as such - it's in your mind. I would be happy to be proved wrong, but all I have got till now from two posters is they are distinctly NRI, without stating where does that distinction come from. One post did mention clothes and hairstyle(seriously?). If there is a distinct clothing and hairstyles for NRIs, I am unaware of it.

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#97
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now? Helping out country men from the north east, and surviving the daily tribulations of India with stoicism, and the ability to be open to all castes, creeds and colors The one thing that united most of India was mysticism and the belief that we are one under some god. You can experiment with that as a start. It's what bound the Sufis, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and several other religions during the best of…

> Right now? Helping out country men from the north east, and surviving the daily tribulations of India with stoicism, and the ability to be open to all castes, creeds and colors The discussion started from a post talking about Indian heritage , and the things which you listed(substitute people from north east with just people ) are basic qualities expected in a decent human being - there is nothing uniquely Indian o…

1) are basic qualities expected in a decent human being - there is nothing uniquely Indian or heritage about it.

Yes exactly my point. Were you expecting rocket science?

The best parts of heritage come from doing the right thing. And doing the right thing is often hard and stark. Today is one of those junctures.

Heritage is not just historic, its being built right now. Your heritage today includes a grand ability to argue, and to mistake articulation for action. You didn't come across as someone who wanted to leave it at that.

Re: mysticism.

> I believed a relation between me and god is personal, and priests, temples, rituals have no business being there. Eventually, I became an atheist.

AFAIK, the personal, as opposed to institution driven, connection to 'God' lands under the penumbra of mysticism.

I am glad you have those answers, but those are your personal answers.

The answer to your question i.e. common heritage, is linked to 'Indian' history, which in turn is inextricably linked to religion.

For example : When the Mughals first came here, (and ironically displaced the previous Nawabs), they said that they found so many things different between the cultures that they could never foresee common ground being reached.

It was when the Sufi saints came though, and discussed their take on religion, that they found a lot in common with the cultures already here.

> I am saying it isn't and there isn't an authority which decides the Indian heritage.

I am not providing authority, I am providing history. You had a question, you got an answer. If you want your answer to be something else, well read through Indian history.

If anything, the history of India gives space for almost everything, be it a Fakir who wants to be close to gods by being close to the ashes of the departed, or someone who is an atheist and appreciates the logic of code.

----

Your final para is about having normal standards to deal with people. Its a great system, stick to it. But again, your question was about heritage not common sense behavior.

----

I am not sure what you were aiming for in your response. You've been able to point out that India is very diverse, which I agree. I am pointing out as well, that the way that melting pot was bound together was often through mysticism.

----

Here,

The west had its progression from the Greek states, their fall, the dark ages, the renissance, the enlightenment, the reformation, along the way including things like the french revolution, women's suffrage and civil liberties.

India followed another path altogether. Indian heritage is defined by that path.

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#98

India is not a police state. India is a dysfunctional state only made functional through continuous petty bribery. Historically police states like Nazi Germany or Mao's China operated by being well organized at all levels of society. India is absolutely not well organized at all levels of society. Instead India seems optimized for the petty bribe seeking bureaucrat. It's not the all knowing police state. It's the dis…

I've been working in India for over 7 years. Getting an employment visa issued (and subsequently renewed) is a kafka-eque nightmare. However, it wasn't because of having to pay bribes to every officer up the chain.

Immigration is just a genuinely dysfunctional entity.

(Believe me, if I thought I could at any point have paid petty bribes to get the damn thing over with instead of wasting weeks of my time, I think I may have actually done so out of frustration).

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#99
post #96
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you manage to achieve that - instantly stand out on the streets of Bangalore as distinctly "NRI" ? Is it the clothes? Or something else? Please elaborate. Becasue I met a nice person in Costa Coffee a few days back and after chatting for some time he revealed he was an NRI here for some falimy affair. He went to UK when he was 15 (he looked 25-30). To me at least he didn't stand out like an NRI. Neither his la…

> How do you manage to achieve that - instantly stand out on the streets of Bangalore as distinctly "NRI"? Now I will throw a claim which I am not going to back - I would like the other side to back theirs. It is impossible to stand out as NRI, let alone distinctly NRI. There is nothing in your clothes or hairstyle that marks you as such - it's in your mind. I would be happy to be proved wrong, but all I have got til…

It is impossible to figure out who is a NRI by just looking. But it becomes obvious who is a NRI by the 'Topics of their discussions'. Which are generally how awesome things are outside India and how horrible they are here.

Re: Yes, India is a police state - Christopher Soghoian

#100
post #57
post #5

we are turning into communist nut-jobs. Thanks to the gandhi family and congress. gandhi family were lead in forming the congress party which was formed under british rule to support british indra gandhi declared an emergency and edited the constituent of india(made us socialist) *gandhi brought u features like no more than 20 SMS per mobile no more cars below 16 liter/KM average 10^32 scams a shitty budget that give…

Don't know what you wish to say here. I am a native Bangalorean. And from what I know of history our state. Close 99.99% of IT growth work you see today was the work of Deve Gowda(JD-S) and SM Krishna(Congress). On top of that biggest projects were conceived under Congress- IT Park constructions, Bangalore Metro etc. Not a single thing has happened under BJP. The biggest scam in Karnataka's history mining scam happen…

not venting.

rationally trying to describe the shit ideas of the congress(gandhi family) while the stupid UI at ycombinator does not add \n after I press enter.

the ideology that thinks the nation is before the single individual, will not think twice adding stupid restriction like those mentioned by "Christopher Soghoian".

the ideology is like this: since they care(as shown by providing free mobiles to poor etc..) they have a right to act like parents and impose such violation of personal rights.

the thinking foundation itself is wrong.

The same thought that imposes ban of cars above 16 km/liter average (ie Ferrari will never show its face in India)is responsible such stupid laws.

The same thought that created ibfindia which is now censoring simple words "menstrual" on TV because they think its their job to care what enters my ear is responsible for such stupid laws.

congress is like a physco slut girl friend of every Indian

Post reply on HN